Marshall Tweaks

[Felon]

I like the suggestions here, but my only issue is that I want to keep the marshal fixes really simple. I'm playing one in an upcoming Red Hand of Doom campaign, and what we've done is:

BAB to full, making the marshal a true front-liner.
HD to d10, for same.
Skills to 6, rather than 4.

Those are commonly suggested fixes. The boosts to HD and BAB muddle the concpet of a support class with that of a "front-liner", which I don't care for.

The class is much more effective as-is than many give it credit for. The problem these days is that if a class doesn't get at least one cool whiz-bang ability every level, it's underpowered and the simplest boost is to give more BAB, HD, and skill points.

I've played a marshal, and the DM certainly never thought it was ineffectual. Some of the minor auras should be rolled into each other, otherwise they're pretty lousy. I would like to see it have some ability that's actually tactical in nature--something involving some actual decsion-making--like the ability to pick a single each round and give them a double-benefit from the aura.

 

[Piratecat]

I love the class, but I agree about capping the minor aura at the marshal level. The 21st high-lvl paladin in my game took a level and immediately gave everyone +9 to will saves. Sure, he's epic level with a charisma to match - but that's quite a bit for one level of a base class.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Those are commonly suggested fixes. The boosts to HD and BAB muddle the concpet of a support class with that of a "front-liner", which I don't care for.

Fair enough. I don't mind a bit of a blurring of the lines, though, and I really see the marshal more as a "front-liner who inspires others" than as a "support class who also fights."

To be fair, I should point out that our purpose, at least in this campaign, was deliberately to make the marshal more of a front-liner, because the group's short on those.

 

[joshuakanton]

I apologize for this being completely off the subject, but "Marshall Tweaks" is a really cool name.

 

[DragonTurtle]

To be fair, I should point out that our purpose, at least in this campaign, was deliberately to make the marshal more of a front-liner, because the group's short on those.

I sorta expected that to be the case, and I think with your tweaks the marshall makes a great frontliner.

I wanted to make more of a tactical fighter, meaning in order to fight effectively he had to choose the right aura(s) and to give him some feats so he could take some of the more tactical feats. Plus I wanted a big incentive for him to put points in Intelligence.

With the frontliner change if he dumps points in Str and Cha he is good to go, Although then he competes somewhat with the knight and paladin. In this variation, he has to decide if he wants to put points in Intelligence and have a better chance at keeping his allies alive, or does he want Str and Con to allow him better chances as a frontline fighter. Of course he still needs to dump points in Charisma no matter what.

 

[DragonTurtle]

I apologize for this being completely off the subject, but "Marshall Tweaks" is a really cool name.

If I think of this as a name for a character, I imagine a Gnomish Paladin.

 

[nobodez]

Personally, I think the marshall is great as it is. It's got a 3/4 BAB and a d8 HD, just like a cleric or druid, and it's got 4+int skills, like a barbarian or druid, plus it's the only class other then bards that have speak language as a class skill. I've also played a few marshalls, and at least in Living Greyhawk, Marshalls make a great buffing class, esp. when combined with bards (I've seen a few Mar/brd builds that are just dangerous).

I think people who dislike the Marshall as written probably have a problem with the support role of bards as well. Not sure, but I suspect. It's one of the best fifth-man classes in the game, and really, it's powerful enough as it is.

 

[SteelDraco]

Personally, I think the marshall is great as it is. It's got a 3/4 BAB and a d8 HD, just like a cleric or druid, and it's got 4+int skills, like a barbarian or druid, plus it's the only class other then bards that have speak language as a class skill. I've also played a few marshalls, and at least in Living Greyhawk, Marshalls make a great buffing class, esp. when combined with bards (I've seen a few Mar/brd builds that are just dangerous).

I think people who dislike the Marshall as written probably have a problem with the support role of bards as well. Not sure, but I suspect. It's one of the best fifth-man classes in the game, and really, it's powerful enough as it is.

I don't really agree. Compare it to a cleric. Do you really think that two extra skill points per level and marshal auras are the equivalent of full spellcasting abilities, domain powers, and turning? I don't really think they are. 'course, using a cleric as a baseline comparison is a bit suspect, but I don't think that marshals are up to par with most base classes. They're a great multiclass, but I don't think they're up to snuff on their own.

 

[airwalkrr]

I would like to see it have some ability that's actually tactical in nature--something involving some actual decsion-making--like the ability to pick a single each round and give them a double-benefit from the aura.

That is a really good idea. One can sort of replicate this with feats, but they are not unique to the marshal. Have you (or anyone else) given this idea any more thought? I would be interested in seeing what comes of it. Tactical abilities based on Intelligence would be a great fix.

 

[Felon]

I don't really agree. Compare it to a cleric. Do you really think that two extra skill points per level and marshal auras are the equivalent of full spellcasting abilities, domain powers, and turning? I don't really think they are. 'course, using a cleric as a baseline comparison is a bit suspect, but I don't think that marshals are up to par with most base classes. They're a great multiclass, but I don't think they're up to snuff on their own.

Well, in terms of secondary features, domain powers vary in quality greatly, and turning is no big whoop. I feel comfortable with 2 more skill points, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), martial weapon proficiency, and Grant Move Action as adequate compensation.

As for primary features, auras A) function indefinitely B) over a wide radius C) as circumstance bonuses that stack with any other bonuses and D) can be switched around as a free action. That's pretty good buffing there. Not as flexible as spellcasting, but it does it what it does quite well.