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4E Martial Techniques

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how the whole series of techniques, as you have formulated it here, fits into overall character construction in 4e. A lot of these are essentially feats or powers in normal 4e parlance, just recast into the mechanical framework of practices/rituals.

So, how would you envisage the way this would work in actual play? I mean, wouldn't it become pretty much REQUIRED to achieve the most useful of these practices? Since their numbers and availability are effectively unrestricted (you could use old-fashioned techniques of making it impossible to find certain ones, but that seems rather against 4e conceptually) are they not simply necessary things that players will have to add to each character?

I mean, that's the flaw with feats already, and the motivation that 5e had for making them an option you pay for with ABIs. 4e feats simply became 'feat tax' that had to be paid. To be a fighter you had to have weapon expertise, weapon talent, the feat that ups your Combat Superiority attack, some weapon proficiency feats to get the best superior weapon in your chosen weapon type path, etc. With these martial techniques you're going to want to have at least the 3 or 4 best ones, ALWAYS. Maybe that's OK, but it isn't serving any kind of goal of increasing character diversity is it?
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how the whole series of techniques, as you have formulated it here, fits into overall character construction in 4e. A lot of these are essentially feats or powers in normal 4e parlance, just recast into the mechanical framework of practices/rituals.
They are almost all of them exactly magic item mechanics good sir and have costs and availability just like them. Some with more than one preparation count as more than one item combined. Something I do with magic items.

There will likely be an iron armbands of power to had in a different flavor... but the "must haves" are no more here than on the magic item lists.

I moved these to their own thread because they were based around items not rituals and so weren't much like the practices. (with only a preparation time of a minor action or two - the defense / armor types being the exception).

It does turn out a few items interact with skills in ways we do have practices doing very similar to the alternate skill use and that also makes things ambiguous however most practices take longer to perform than items do to equip and use.

For the disarming flourish technique there is an item which allows one to use strength to intimidate with all the time. (you mentioned that you were considering that effect in practices instead of swapping skills) . I think a full swap out athletics and thievery for a targeted use instead of just attributes for every use, made more sense. (guess I made it more practice like with that and then thinking we needed an assured effect even on a failure is also).

I am finding the need to differentiate things more and more annoying. I mean preparing a practice so it can be used quickly makes it into a dispensable magic item. There goes the barriers again.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Disarming Flourish

You may use your athletics or thieving for the in combat usage of intimidation. Using this technique you put on display of prowess so incredible you may even disarm your enemy and drive them into defeat

level 6, 1800 karma

Note in a world with many magic items that cling to hand or leap back to hand perhaps this ability is seen as quaint and old fashioned among the elites. (such items making one immune to the secondary effects mentioned)
The secondary effect would mean this takes a preparation of 2 worth another and rack the total up to a level 9 acuisition... ie fast approaching paragon.

Its easy to leave that aside and consider this a more approachable level 6 with no guarantee of even the temporary disarm effect.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
So, how would you envisage the way this would work in actual play? I mean, wouldn't it become pretty much REQUIRED to achieve the most useful of these practices? Since their numbers and availability are effectively unrestricted
No more unrestricted than magic items are ...

I mean, that's the flaw with feats already, and the motivation that 5e had for making them an option you pay for with ABIs.
That looked like an attempt to better enable simplistic functionality ie more slayers less cool fighters, instead of interesting things which make for more complicated play.
 
They are almost all of them exactly magic item mechanics good sir and have costs and availability just like them. Some with more than one preparation count as more than one item combined. Something I do with magic items.

There will likely be an iron armbands of power to had in a different flavor... but the "must haves" are no more here than on the magic item lists.

I moved these to their own thread because they were based around items not rituals and so weren't much like the practices. (with only a preparation time of a minor action or two - the defense / armor types being the exception).

It does turn out a few items interact with skills in ways we do have practices doing very similar to the alternate skill use and that also makes things ambiguous however most practices take longer to perform than items do to equip and use.

For the disarming flourish technique there is an item which allows one to use strength to intimidate with all the time. (you mentioned that you were considering that effect in practices instead of swapping skills) . I think a full swap out athletics and thievery for a targeted use instead of just attributes for every use, made more sense. (guess I made it more practice like with that and then thinking we needed an assured effect even on a failure is also).

I am finding the need to differentiate things more and more annoying. I mean preparing a practice so it can be used quickly makes it into a dispensable magic item. There goes the barriers again.
Right, I just cannot muster the enthusiasm anymore for 4e's plethora of different categories of power ups which are all basically exactly the same thing, except how you get them.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Something like Disarming Flourish in practice form would be like the following.
As a practice you would analyse the fighting style of the particular enemy or type of enemy you wanted to disarm and use insight, make a preparation that would allow you to pull it out and get both insight based disarm and get a form of auto success with the adversary being disarmed/proned diving/kneeling to pick it up even if the intimidation style check failed ... while it might be workable as a practice it isnt something I think would be a must have.

One significant difference between practices/rituals and items/techniques

The latter are far more expensive.

typical prices with some variation.
Level 6 item 1800 --- Level 6 practice or ritual 360
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
In the category of Ambiguity... Look at this Skill Power (admittedly it's one I made but inspired by another official one) its level 10 but of note since it does not require a bloodied target unlike the technique and is more versatile being able to move the enemy around. But if I included the auxiliary proning effect in the technique it would be very close. (In level too)

DisarmingRiposte.png

Are powers analogous to two items?
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
The secondary effect would mean this takes a preparation of 2 worth another and rack the total up to a level 9 acuisition... ie fast approaching paragon.

Its easy to leave that aside and consider this a more approachable level 6 with no guarantee of even the temporary disarm effect.

Perfected Disarm
If your Intimidate Encounter Power Fails to fully defeat your adversary, your astounding technique remains far from pointless. If your enemy is armed with a weapon or implement it is knocked to their feat - they spend an opportunity action to drop prone rearming themselves (but they are now prone) similarly an unarmored enemy is bowled over by your display and unable to respond to opportunities.

Mechanics: Your enemy loses an opportunity action and is prone.

Karma 4200 1 focus and 1 preparation
 
Perfected Disarm
If your Intimidate Encounter Power Fails to fully defeat your adversary, your astounding technique remains far from pointless. If your enemy is armed with a weapon or implement it is knocked to their feat - they spend an opportunity action to drop prone rearming themselves (but they are now prone) similarly an unarmored enemy is bowled over by your display and unable to respond to opportunities.

Mechanics: Your enemy loses an opportunity action and is prone.

Karma 4200 1 focus and 1 preparation
Yeah, it works.
 
Nothing specific is leaping immediately to mind, but I'm sure I remember some character builds where getting a magic item opened up a feat, or taking a feat opened up an item slot...
Well, THAT category is very large. The most obvious example being Dual Implement Spellcaster. Once you had that you could pick up your Staff of Ruin and get a nice damage bonus to all your attacks. Another example would be something like a spiked buckler with a weapon enchantment on it and Shield Proficiency (or a shield for that matter, though I cannot recall even one shield with a worthwhile enchantment on it).
 
i think I am recalling some valuable damage resistances...
Well, OK, but nobody took them because there were vastly better things to spend an arm slot on....

There could be some sort of edge-case for a wizard maybe? I don't know. I really literally never saw a shield in play, except once, and it was a non-optimal choice. I think it was just something the character picked up and used because nothing better was available.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Well, OK, but nobody took them because there were vastly better things to spend an arm slot on....

There could be some sort of edge-case for a wizard maybe? I don't know. I really literally never saw a shield in play, except once, and it was a non-optimal choice. I think it was just something the character picked up and used because nothing better was available.
My son has a Captain America character ;) haven't seen him played but he sounds fun.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Awesome Physique

You may use your strength in place of charisma for performing diplomacy, this generally requires you to not be wearing body obscuring things like most armor
This could be used as a pattern for any technique allowing a different attribute to persistently be applied to all uses of any skill assuming you have a nice story reason for the effect. Perhaps the "nimble athletics" technique allows dex to be applied universally to the athletics skill. (or instinctive historian allows Con to be applied to history -hey you know the high con also allows him to study all night when the high int guy is nodding off)

However level 2 skill powers which enable swapping out of skills once per encounter I consider evidence this may actually be much too expensive. The likelihood of skills being employed large numbers of times in an encounter is fairly low so the skill power is almost as useful as the above.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Humble Elocution
This technique is technically open to many (not just martial types) and is not actually that popular often due to personality reasons nor is it necessary that natural to most though some rogues really find it very potent (see loki). This is a self deprecating verbal technique where humility becomes an ingratiating factor it can be sincere or deceptive and may be done in blatant fashion as part of humor.

The technique confers a technique bonus equal to your rank in it for both Diplomacy and Deception skills. Additionally Daily you may choose to re-roll a Diplomacy or Deception attempt using the second even if it is lower.

the rank 1 version is available at level 3.
This technique requires 1 focus
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Martial Techniques are by the way a continuance of this stated goal for 4e.

"One of our goals in 4th Edition was to reduce characters’ reliance on magic items."

Arguably they are the final step.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Design items right so you do not need warning labels... the rarities were an excuse to be sloppy in design.
 

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