D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Vaalingrade]

Getting a "magical permit" "to have interesting mechanical choices" is exactly how 5e works.

Then 5e needs to learn to do better and put on its big boy pants.

For example as part of a rule revision, anniversary edition or playtest named via rummaging around in the dumpster behind a marketing consultant for a tech company.

 

[Yaarel]

Well sort of. Rogues have none. Frenzy barbarians have none. In fact it only seems to be fighters that are required to have a magic pass to get superhuman powers.

Rogues are oddly immune to nonmagicality.

Barbarian is residually 4e "Primal" magic. (Norse Berserkar are shamanic, and overtly magical, such as shapeshifting plus impossible effects, like being immune to weapons.)

Yeah. It is something about the Fighter, specifically, that some demand to conform to some kind of extreme of nonmagical.

 

[Yaarel]

Then 5e needs to learn to do better and put on its big boy pants.

For example as part of a rule revision, anniversary edition or playtest named via rummaging around in the dumpster behind a marketing consultant for a tech company.

What the designers want and what the survey feedback says are sometimes nonidentical.

But yeah, a nonmagical Fighter is logically defective when at high tiers.

It would be disappointing if the designers allowed the Fighter to languish anew with the same problematic assumptions and consequences in 2024.

 

[Vaalingrade]

But yeah, a nonmagical Fighter is logically defective when at high tiers.

Not if you accept that you're not playing a True Crime story and instead something fantastic, perhaps involving complexes carved deep into the bowels of the Earth or a 30 foot long, flying tank armed with a flamethrower and the intellect of Oppenheimer.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah. It is something about the Fighter, specifically, that some demand to conform to some kind of extreme of nonmagical.

Because I find the idea that anything fantastic must necessarily magical to be repugnant and actively harmful to both the fantasy supergenre and media literacy itself.

 

[Yaarel]

Some people dont get into scifi/fantasy. They prefer "realistic" shows.

LOL! When I visit my mother, she can start a vacuum cleaner and vacuum in front me, and not even notice that I am watching a scifi movie.

For her, she likes detective shows, mysteries and police procedurals.

Maybe for certain D&D players, a nonmagical Fighter serves an anchor to realism that they need to enjoy the game?

 

[Incenjucar]

It's hard for me to accept a character is a fighter when I had a broader skill set as a nerdy teenager.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Some people dont get into scifi/fantasy. They prefer "realistic" shows.

Why in god's name are they playing Dungeons and Dragons.

Maybe for certain D&D players, a nonmagical Fighter serves an anchor to realism that they need to enjoy the game?

They have a sucktastic, non-magical fighter in the Champion, the albatross that weighs down the entire class by existing. And it's 'real' in the way that people think 'real' people are bad at fighting and Jack LaLane never existed.

Where is the non-magical fighter who is just a badass like in every action, fantasy, sci-fi, entertaining movie for those people who want that?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Going to catch up again here in a minute, but first.

I put my money where my mouth was.

https://www.enworld.org/threads/chaosmancer-martial-brews.698337/

It isn't perfect, it is a bit rough in places, but I made a large series of changes.

 

[Hussar]

What the designers want and what the survey feedback says are sometimes nonidentical.

But yeah, a nonmagical Fighter is logically defective when at high tiers.

It would be disappointing if the designers allowed the Fighter to languish anew with the same problematic assumptions and consequences in 2024.

Do you honestly expect anything more? At best we’re going to get those new weapon mastery rules. That’s pretty much about it.