D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.

[TheSword]

You haven’t responded to any of my prompts of situations where casters can simply short-circuit encounters.

It would be a lot easier for me to understand why you think I’m wrong if you actually addressed my points, instead of condescendingly telling me “to go play in a low magic campaign”.

You’ve just listed your criticisms of spells. I’m not interested in debating your dislike of spells. It’s outside of the scope of the thread and frankly if you don’t like magic period in a party you probably shouldn’t be DMing vanilla D&D.

 

[Asisreo]

This feels like you are sidestepping the issue to avoid responding to the hypothetical I laid out.

It is a 4-person level 9 party. I specifically did not go into detail of what the make-up of the party was or what probability they had to defeat the Worm.

The level 9 wizard has a 60% chance to defeat the worm with a single spell. The only “optimization” for the wizard is that they have 20 Int and know the Polymorph spell.

Does any non-spellcaster have anything that is comparatively effective?

You're choosing an example that works well with the given spell but not giving that same benefit to martials. In fact, a monk can OTK a mummy lord.

Actually, now that I think of it, a Battlemaster Fighter could do the same thing handily with a torch...

And its the same CR, too.

 

[Oofta]

This feels like you are sidestepping the issue to avoid responding to the hypothetical I laid out.

It is a 4-person level 9 party. I specifically did not go into detail of what the make-up of the party was or what probability they had to defeat the Worm.

The level 9 wizard has a 60% chance to defeat the worm with a single spell. The only “optimization” for the wizard is that they have 20 Int and know the Polymorph spell.

Does any non-spellcaster have anything that is comparatively effective?

You're assuming the wizard has the spell prepped and the available slot. That the wizard wins initiative, or if they lose that they are not eaten. That the worm is a solo creature (generally not a good idea). That the worm surfaces and stays out in the open during the wizard's turn.

You're also assuming that it matters. Does a wizard pull a rabbit out of their hat now and then or turn a monster into a rabbit? Sure. That's their schtick. Doesn't make the fighter worthless or the wizard god. When the wizard is lower on slots or they prepared different spells because polymorph is only really useful for certain types of enemies (primarily solos) then it will be an opportunity for the fighter to shine.

Once again, it's a team game. If the wizard is up to bat and they hit a home run the entire group cheers. I'm not sure I'd want to play with a group where the other party members were not happy that this particular spell worked in this specific scenario.

 

[TheSword]

I was listening to WFRP 4e podcast tonight about updates to production.

It reminded me that wizards in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay are only allowed to use magic to defend the empire. Any other use is actually illegal and can lead to a witch hunter’s pyre.

No teleport, no domination, no tiny huts. Maybe everyone is playing the wrong game.

 

[ph0rk]

I was listening to WFRP 4e podcast tonight about updates to production.

It reminded me that wizards in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay are only allowed to use magic to defend the empire. Any other use is actually illegal and can lead to a witch hunter’s pyre.

No teleport, no domination, no tiny huts. Maybe everyone is playing the wrong game.

Role playing constraints meant as balance for mechanical power was the reason the original (2e) Bladesinger was such laughably overpowered joke.

It only works in a tightly constrained setting, which is not what D&D has ever been.

 

[Mort]

I was listening to WFRP 4e podcast tonight about updates to production.

It reminded me that wizards in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay are only allowed to use magic to defend the empire. Any other use is actually illegal and can lead to a witch hunter’s pyre.

No teleport, no domination, no tiny huts. Maybe everyone is playing the wrong game.

Or maybe,

People who are generally happy with 5e are using a message board (and thread about a topic) to gripe about an issue they see with some aspects of the game. And to see if people have the same or similar gripes and how they've handled it.

To improve their and their players, 5e play experience. Which again, they clearly like since they're playing and posting about it.

 

[TheSword]

Role playing constraints meant as balance for mechanical power was the reason the original (2e) Bladesinger was such laughably overpowered joke.

It only works in a tightly constrained setting, which is not what D&D has ever been.

Yeah. I was joking

 

[ph0rk]

Yeah. I was joking

Ah, fair enough. I mean, heresy!

 

[Minigiant]

Role playing constraints meant as balance for mechanical power was the reason the original (2e) Bladesinger was such laughably overpowered joke.

It only works in a tightly constrained setting, which is not what D&D has ever been.

That's why D&D should create all the classes they don't because of flavor.

1. The Arcane Half Caster Half Warrior.
2. The Science based Scholarly Nonspellcasting Expert
3. The Smart Warrior that uses Tactics, Resourcefulness, Insight, and Inspiration
4. The Warrior who uses sets of complex martial Techniques
5. The Afflict being who slowly turns into a monster and has monstrous powers.
6. The Mage of Truemagic that can perform incredible feats but has difficultly doing so

MOAR CLASSES!

 

[Oofta]

Or maybe,

People who are generally happy with 5e are using a message board (and thread about a topic) to gripe about an issue they see with some aspects of the game. And to see if people have the same or similar gripes and how they've handled it.

To improve their and their players, 5e play experience. Which again, they clearly like since they're playing and posting about it.

I had an old girlfriend (not to be confused with a girlfriend that is old) that would start complaining about something. I'd listen and then try to offer some constructive advice. Then she'd get angry because she just wanted to bitch.

I honestly didn't get it then and I don't get it now. Want ideas on how to deal with an issue? We can chat. Maybe my ideas won't work but someone else's will whether that's a solution staying inside the lines or house rules. Just ignore all suggestions and complain? I don't get the point but try to ignore it (often unsuccessfully) when I recognize it.