D&D 5E Martials v Casters...I still don't *get* it.

[ph0rk]

I had an old girlfriend (not to be confused with a girlfriend is old) that would start complaining about something. I'd listen and then try to offer some constructive advice. Then she'd get angry because she just wanted to bitch.

I honestly didn't get it then and I don't get it now. Want ideas on how to deal with an issue? We can chat. Maybe my ideas won't work but someone else's will whether that's a solution staying inside the lines or house rules. Just ignore all suggestions and complain? I don't get the point but try to ignore it (often unsuccessfully) when I recognize it.

Thus far most of your constructive advice has seemed to boil down to “good DMs can fix this”, which doesn’t really help people who know the system already and are discussing its faults.

 

[Mort]

I had an old girlfriend (not to be confused with a girlfriend is old) that would start complaining about something. I'd listen and then try to offer some constructive advice. Then she'd get angry because she just wanted to bitch.

I honestly didn't get it then and I don't get it now. Want ideas on how to deal with an issue? We can chat. Maybe my ideas won't work but someone else's will whether that's a solution staying inside the lines or house rules. Just ignore all suggestions and complain? I don't get the point but try to ignore it (often unsuccessfully) when I recognize it.

Personally, I welcome all suggestions and am happy to debate them. I'm not foolish enough to think I have remotely close to either all the answers or a prefect view of the issues (or even close).

What I don't like is when someone dismisses the entire question or concern and instead insinuates anyone who has it is clearly misunderstanding the issues and /or playing wrong.

 

[Eubani]

I am sure there is a rpg based logical fallacy that states that just because a DM can fix an issue, does not mean there is no issue. So much time in this thread has been spent treading in this fallacy that the mess is everywhere.

 

[Oofta]

Thus far most of your constructive advice has seemed to boil down to “good DMs can fix this”, which doesn’t really help people who know the system already and are discussing its faults.

My advice boils down to accept the difference. If it matters to you and your group don't let the PCs have a 5 minute work day. Use the standard 6-8 (I personally aim for 5-10) encounters between long rests things have always balanced out for me even up to level 20; it's only an issue if casters can always go nova. If they go nova now and then, isn't that part of the fun?

Well, that, and plenty of people enjoy playing dirt simple PCs. There are plenty of warrior types you can play if fighters are boring for you.

 

[Minigiant]

Martial Level

Your capacity for martial combat and physical feats while in active combat depends partly on your combined levels in all your martial classes and partly on your individual levels in those classes. Classes that have proficiency in all martial weapons and a type of armor have a martial level equal to their level in the class. Classes that have proficiency in all simple weapons and a type of armor have a martial level equal to half their level in the class. Monks are a special case and have martial level equal to their class level.

When performing spectacular martial action or action, the character must make a check of 1d20 + their Martial level vs the difficulty of the action to succeed.

Type of warrior that could do it regularly	DC to perform their actions
Semi professional warriors (bandits, tribal warriors)	5
Professional warriors (knights, berserkers, bandit leaders)	10
Master of the martial craft (swordmasters, arena champions)	15
Legends of the combat arts	20
Martial demigods and gods	25

 

[ph0rk]

My advice boils down to accept the difference.

Hume’s Guillotine. No.

 

[TheSword]

Martial Level

Your capacity for martial combat and physical feats while in active combat depends partly on your combined levels in all your martial classes and partly on your individual levels in those classes. Classes that have proficiency in all martial weapons and a type of armor have a martial level equal to their level in the class. Classes that have proficiency in all simple weapons and a type of armor have a martial level equal to half their level in the class. Monks are a special case and have martial level equal to their class level.

When performing spectacular martial action or action, the character must make a check of 1d20 + their Martial level vs the difficulty of the action to succeed.

Type of warrior that could do it regularly	DC to perform their actions
Semi professional warriors (bandits, tribal warriors)	5
Professional warriors (knights, berserkers, bandit leaders)	10
Master of the martial craft (swordmasters, arena champions)	15
Legends of the combat arts	20
Martial demigods and gods	25

Opposed tests are the standard. A system like this that uses d20+level (aside from going against the core principe of bounded accuracy) would be useless for opposed tests, as NPCs don’t use level as a meaningful metric.

 

[Minigiant]

Opposed tests are the standard. A system like this that uses d20+level (aside from going against the core principe of bounded accuracy) would be useless for opposed tests, as NPCs don’t use level as a meaningful metric.

This is an exception. Like Spellcasting.

NPCs can do the same and apply their HD.

 

[FrozenNorth]

You're choosing an example that works well with the given spell but not giving that same benefit to martials. In fact, a monk can OTK a mummy lord.

Actually, now that I think of it, a Battlemaster Fighter could do the same thing handily with a torch...

And its the same CR, too.

Please demonstrate how a 9th level Battlemaster fighter can kill a mummy lord in one turn, using only a torch.

But it seems to me that a 9th level wizard with Fireball would be extremely effective against a mummy lord.

 

[FrozenNorth]

You're assuming the wizard has the spell prepped and the available slot.

Well, Polymorph is an extremely useful spell both in combat and out of combat. And as I mentioned, at 9th level, a wizard can cast the spell 5 times total (3 times with a 4th level slot, 1 with a 5th level slot, and 1 more with Arcane Recovery).

So, yeah, this hardly seems like a stretch. At higher levels, the wizard has even more high level slots.