Mastering the rules? Is it really possible?

[Sir Whiskers]

Before I got into D&D (pre-1976) I played in miniatures wargames and AH/SPI games. In those sorts of games you did have to remember all the rules (or at least keep the rulebook handy for the constant arguments regarding "Line of Sight" and "Morale Check Failures").

I vaguely remember one of the AH designers admitting that it was virtually impossible to play an error-free game of Third Reich. From experience, I can tell you that he is right. BTW, the Third Reich rules were well under a hundred pages.

As for roleplaying games, I remember enjoying wargames because they at least had a firm rules-set. RPG's, on the other hand, left a great deal open to interpretation, which could become a pain. 3E/3.5E have tried to solve that problem by throwing a thousand pages of rules at us - so many, we're back to the situation above: it's virtually impossible to play an error-free game of DnD. Oh well...

 

[Ottergame]

I think you SHOULD have a really solid understanding on most of the rules, and be willing to look up ones you don't fully understand on the fly. It's great if you just sorta make up all the rules as you go along (as long as your GOOD at it, and few are), but you're really not playing Dungeons and Dragons if that's how you play. You're playing "Dungeons and Whatever I Come Up With", a game I generally refuse to play.

 

[MerricB]

For the life of me, I wish I could remember the name of the guy who posted it. He was one of the strongest devotees of 1e that I'd ever encounbtered. He wrote up a whole example that included everything: segments, weapon speed, rection adjustments, and some spellcasting. It was insane.

Not only was it insane, it was wrong. He got the surprise rules wrong.

Suddenly the Dungeon Master announces that they must roll for surprise. Fitor is the leader character and he rolls the d6 for he and Elfez. He rolls a 2. The DM rolls a 3. Normally, Fitor and Elfez would be surprised for one "lost segment" enough time for them to be surprise-attacked for the equivalent for one round of combat (3 -2 = 1).

However, the brave adventurers are both blessed with Dexterity scores of 16. The Reaction Adjustment of +1 mitigates the number of "lost segments" by 1. Therefore, neither Fitor nor Elfez are actually surprised. Had other members in their party been present, those with Dexterity 15 or less would have been subjected to surprise attacks for one segment.

Surprise in 1E is generally written as "2 in 6" chance; that is: if you roll a 1, you are surprised for 1 segment. If you roll a 2, you are surprised for 2 segments; if you roll a 3-6, you are not surprised.

If both sides are surprised, then the difference between the rolls is how surprised the less surprised party have over the opposition; Dex mitigates how individuals react (reaction adj. makes them less or more surprised).

So, this "3 vs. 2" should actually have the PCs being surprised for 2 segments (not 1); with their Dex modifiers that goes to 1 segment...

Cheers!

 

[pogre]

I think you SHOULD have a really solid understanding on most of the rules, and be willing to look up ones you don't fully understand on the fly. It's great if you just sorta make up all the rules as you go along (as long as your GOOD at it, and few are), but you're really not playing Dungeons and Dragons if that's how you play. You're playing "Dungeons and Whatever I Come Up With", a game I generally refuse to play.

This reminds me a lot of some of the introductions to the original AD&D.

I think your statements fly in the face of the spirit of the current incarnation of D&D. Having said that, I think consistent rules interpretations are helpful to a game.

 

[caudor]

I believe, as far as my group goes, that I have the roleplaying aspect of the game down fairly well. I've had a few moments where players have teared up, like recently when an NPC gave his life for the party (hehe, one player made a quick excuse to go grab a Dr. Pepper, which is slightly more clever than pretending there was something in his eye )

With that aspect going well, my rule mastery (or lack thereof) was what was bugging me. This thread has helped alot though.

What I really want is both, I suppose: consistency with the rules AND a great roleplaying experience. If I can capture that, I think I've got it made

 

[Ottergame]

Having said that, I think consistent rules interpretations are helpful to a game.

That's what I meant, not that have you have to play the rules 100% as written. Inconsistant rulings, houserules made because of misunderstood published rules, and wrongly using the rules in the books are all signs of a bad GM. Everyone benefits when you have a clear understanding of how the game functions when you run a game.

 

[pogre]

That's what I meant, not that have you have to play the rules 100% as written. Inconsistant rulings, houserules made because of misunderstood published rules, and wrongly using the rules in the books are all signs of a bad GM. Everyone benefits when you have a clear understanding of how the game functions when you run a game.

As usual I have jumped to a conclusion - I stand corrected.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Allanon]

Well the most rewarding moment I've had after a session was after a long night of gaming someone complemented me on how fluid he felt the game had gone. Nobody had complained about a ruling or felt the need to 'look it up in *". It was the first time it had happened to me and it felt great .

The fact was that I had just used a lot of common sense and quick, logical thinking with the D20/DC system.
[Captain Barbosa]"The rules, well the rules are actually more like a set of guidelines"[/Captain Barbosa]

 

[buzz]

Not only was it insane, it was wrong. He got the surprise rules wrong.

See?!?! Nobody played AD&D1e right.

 

[trentonjoe]

The small changes to some spells and minor tweaks in other rules have caused me to question every rule I know. .

Tell me about it. I had to look up SLEEP on Saturday. Sleep, for Pete's sake! I have been playing since 1986 and I ahve to look up sleep?

One of the guys I play with thought it didn't effect animals, I tryed to referenced my memory banks and all I could remember was 1e example about kobolds, gnolls, and ogres.

I felt like a buffoon looking up sleep.