Masters of the Wild bloopers

[Piratecat]

Do not hijack happy fun thread.

Please start a new thread in house rules for the whole intimidate question; this thread is again about mistakes in MotW.

Thanks!

 

[Tarin Greenflame]

I still say the tempest is one of the worstPrCs yet in terms of ratio of requirements to abilities given, kinda like the un-"web enhanced" (notice they didn't errata it, they had to 'web enhance' it) bladesinger.

 

[Crothian]

I still say the tempest is one of the worstPrCs yet in terms of ratio of requirements to abilities given, kinda like the un-"web enhanced" (notice they didn't errata it, they had to 'web enhance' it) bladesinger.

I really like the description of the Tempest, though. The actually class is bland and propabably underpowered, but the text was a good job. They need to get rid of the off hand parry crap and actually come up with some ways to creatively use two weapons. It's one of the few classes I'm really thinking about severely altering.

 

[Killer Shrike]

I'm not sure whether this is a blooper per se (i.e., it's not a mechanical error).

Why is Rage a prerequisite for the Exotic Weapons Master prestige class? Other than (I fear) an excuse to stick it in the MOTW book as a p-class for barbarians when the feel of the class seems too generic.

How exactly does Raging and the Barbarian in general correspond to learning lots of exotic weapons?

Were it not for that one prereq, one could speculate that this would be a p-class for Rangers as well (who have their affinity for fighting with multiple weapons and ostensibly do a lot of exploring and visiting exotic lands and such).

I wondered the very same thing myself. I think it is simply a tack-on to make the class 'fit' more solidly in the book; otherwise it is a great class for a fighter, who will pick up gobs'o'feat-equivalent EWPs from the class. Personally I plan to drop that preReq in my campaign.

Also, as you point out it is somewhat on target for Rangers, but since the only unique (among the core classes) ability Rangers get that isnt duplicateable by feats is Favored Enemy which would have been an equally random preReq for EWM.

Keep in mind however, that from a metagame standpoint _all_ characters that dont have to be Lawful for another class benefit by taking 1 level of Barbarian, particularly Sorcerors and Wizards and especially at 1st level.

 

[Mistwell]

Oh my goodness...the thread went back on topic...
Crothian...no serious medical conditions yet, but I think my left eye started to twitch there for a moment...


I bet I looked pretty intimidating (doh!)

 

[Henry@home]

Sorry for joining so late...

I suggest that if anyone drops the Rage requirement to Exotic weapon master (which I plan to do...) They REALLY should add a couple additional requirements... After all, getting not only proficiency with a group of weapons that grows with every supplement, but FOCUS and SPECIALIZATION with all these weapons is just too much!

Think about it - would a class ability that allowed prociency, focus and specialization with every simple and martial weapon in the PHB be too excessive? I think so, myself.

 

[Crothian]

Oh my goodness...the thread went back on topic...
Crothian...no serious medical conditions yet, but I think my left eye started to twitch there for a moment...


I bet I looked pretty intimidating (doh!)

That was actually quite funny.

As for the EWM, well rage can make sense if when you rage you pick up anything and try to use it as a weapon. EWP are the more difficult weapons to learn. Perhaps one could look at rage as a highly dedicated fighting style that quickly tires out the person.

So, how useful is it to learn all EWP? Sure there are some really cool ones. Dwarven Axe and Bastard sword are two of the best weapons out of the PHB. Other suppliments have come out with many new exotic weapons, some of which are also good. However, most are just wierd. Finding any of these weapons magical will be rare. Yes, the character can get them made but that is still not an easy thing in itself.

So, what is my point of this post? Heck if I know. If you get rid of Rage as a prereuite is does need to be replaced with something. What can it be replaced with? I think knowledge weapons: 5 ranks is perfect. Learning to use every single expotic weapon should make one an expert in weapons.

Hey, maybe aI did havea point after all.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

IMO, the deepwood sniper class could have done with a good dose of pep pills. As it is, it seems relatively underpowered (how often do you hear _that_ about a splatbook PrC?).

So far, I've bumped up the magic weapon ability at 2nd level to greater magic weapon, as a cleric of class level + 2; and changed the true strike ability to be usable 3 times/day, on all attacks in one round.

Hong, have you actually played a Deepwood Sniper and personally found it to be underpowered, or are you merely stating your estimate? I'm only asking because, by looking at the class in the book, I found the Deepwood Sniper to be very powerful. The increases in crit range alone, to a max of x5, are very potent, with the other abilities just gravy on the cake. Even with no multiclassing, the thing is strong, multiclassed with an arcane archer, it's very strong.

Or at least, that's the impression I got from it. Having not played the class myself, I'm curious if you have play experience to relate about it...

 

[hong]

Hong, have you actually played a Deepwood Sniper and personally found it to be underpowered, or are you merely stating your estimate? I'm only asking because, by looking at the class in the book, I found the Deepwood Sniper to be very powerful. The increases in crit range alone, to a max of x5, are very potent, with the other abilities just gravy on the cake. Even with no multiclassing, the thing is strong, multiclassed with an arcane archer, it's very strong.

No, I haven't played it. In fact, I'm not intending to play one; I'm deciding whether to allow it in the campaign I'm planning. Typically I have no problem nerfing PrCs that strike me as too strong; in fact, most of the splatbook PrCs are this way, so the deepwood sniper was a bit of a surprise.

The abilities listed just strike me as particularly weak, if not completely irrelevant. Any minmaxed archer worth his salt is going to have at least a +1 bow at 7th level, so the magic weapon ability isn't much use. Similarly, by 10th level (15th character level), given the usual powerups, the sniper will be getting 2-3 guaranteed hits per round anyway. True strike once per day is pretty silly at that stage.

The x5 crits are nice, but I don't really think they're that much worse than what any archer gets. A x3 crit is already deadly to a lot of things, especially with powerups; the extra damage is just overkill. Now if Power Crit was possible with a ranged weapon, or there was a ranged equivalent of Power Attack, then it might be different.

As for multiclassing with arcane archer, I have ways of preventing that....

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The abilities listed just strike me as particularly weak, if not completely irrelevant. Any minmaxed archer worth his salt is going to have at least a +1 bow at 7th level, so the magic weapon ability isn't much use.

Yes, that's definitely true. It might come in handy if the archer's main bow were to be sundered (as happened to our Arcane Archer recently,) but otherwise, it's a redudant ability.

Similarly, by 10th level (15th character level), given the usual powerups, the sniper will be getting 2-3 guaranteed hits per round anyway. True strike once per day is pretty silly at that stage.

Hmm...I'm not sure about this one. Our party (13th-level, one Arcane Archer, no Deepwood Sniper) recently faced off against a black dragon with Mage Armor and Protection from Good running. It had an AC of over 30. Usually, our Arcane Archer is a machine-gun of flaming arrow death, but against that high an AC, she wasn't able to hit much. With a True Strike and a x5 crit on her bow, she'd be a much more serious threat. Granted, once a day isn't a lot, but a lot of second-tier PrC powers are like that, such as the Phase Arrow from the Arcane Archer. Good in a specific situation, but only once. I see the crit mod bonus as the first-tier ability a Deepwood Sniper gains.

The x5 crits are nice, but I don't really think they're that much worse than what any archer gets. A x3 crit is already deadly to a lot of things, especially with powerups; the extra damage is just overkill. Now if Power Crit was possible with a ranged weapon, or there was a ranged equivalent of Power Attack, then it might be different.

Again, at higher levels there are a lot of creatures with high HP, and hitting harder means you can hit less often and still be deadly. Choosing the right feats can make the Sniper even stronger. Add in Improved Critical, and the Sniper's arrows not only crit harder, but more often.

As for multiclassing with arcane archer, I have ways of preventing that....

Yeah, and multiclassing potential shouldn't be used to guage a PrC's strength anyway, right?

Interesting observations there, Hong. I think I'm still inclined to believe the Deepwood Sniper is strong, but you definitely made me think of things more carefully.