D&D 5E Max HP?

[dave2008]

@Xeviat , quick question: Are you looking for fights to last longer or be more deadly/threatening?

If you want fights to last longer, give monsters more HP or AC and/or methods to deal with the effects your PCs are inflicting (higher saves most likely).

If you want fights to be more threatening, reduce PC HP. This solves almost all the issues with monsters being weak.

 

[5atbu]

I often wonder the size of party and optimization level of players who say this. I've ran 3 person parties and 6 person parties and I can say that party size is a huge factor in consistency and what is hard and not. Optimization level really changes things as well as well optimized characters can often be nearly twice as effective as unoptimized ones.

Plus.. as a group of players gel with each other and the rules and how they want to play.. the dynamics shift and change.

Depending on how silly or serious, combat oriented or story oriented the table is can in itself change the combat style or effectiveness of a group of PCs.

Finding the sweet spot for your table is an art for all gamers..

 

[Stoutstien]

If you want a monster to be a challenge, but don't want it to be a mythic or legendary, just pick a much higher CR monster. That will have much more HP and do more damage without the complexity of legendary actions.

Doesn't actually work that well. CR isn't perfect to begin with and PC progression isn't a curve as much as a series of steps or jumps.
Trying to use higher CR to up challenge usually ends in two ways:
-Rocket tag because the NPC is hitting hard and often so there is little point in trying to stop it so might as well just go all out and only heal to prevent death. See my original point on damage treadmill

-action denial. Can be cool once or twice but it's also anti-climactic. Most NPCs don't have any real defense to stop it and if the DM was expecting more from it this leads to some of the common complaints with DMs and the false belief of metagaming ruining the game.

You also have the issue with using high CR single Target encounters is you're giving the dice more weight. This could be good or bad depending on what your goals are but for most tables I don't think it's necessarily as awesome as it looks.

There's nothing wrong with using the deadly knob to increase tension but there's a dozen other knobs on the same platform you might as well use them.

 

[DEFCON 1]

As I've mentioned before... my belief is that if your table has anything more than 4 PCs from the Basic Rules-- one from each class-- your party is going to be 'overtuned' compared to the baseline challenge levels that were set up in the DMG. And you have to be prepared to adjust for that.

 

[dave2008]

Doesn't actually work that well.

It has worked well at times for me. Different groups play differently, but I have had success with pitting high CR monsters vs my group.

CR isn't perfect to begin with and PC progression isn't a curve as much as a series of steps or jumps.
Trying to use higher CR to up challenge usually ends in two ways:
-Rocket tag because the NPC is hitting hard and often so there is little point in trying to stop it so might as well just go all out and only heal to prevent death. See my original point on damage treadmill

Not sure why this is an issue, so I can't really confirm or deny this an issue for my group. This seems perfectly expectable and fun on occasion.

-action denial. Can be cool once or twice but it's also anti-climactic. Most NPCs don't have any real defense to stop it and if the DM was expecting more from it this leads to some of the common complaints with DMs and the false belief of metagaming ruining the game.

Again, I am not sure what you are stating the issue is: deny actions from the PCs or the Monsters. Few monsters have abilities to deny actions from the PCs, and deny monster actions is lessened by higher saves from higher CR monsters. But it is not like PCs deny monster's actions is a bad thing to begin with.

You also have the issue with using high CR single Target encounters is you're giving the dice more weight. This could be good or bad depending on what your goals are but for most tables I don't think it's necessarily as awesome as it looks.

If that is an issue at all, it is only an issue if you are doing this for every monster (or close to it). The suggestion wasn't for use with every monster. Variety is the spice of combat encounters!

There's nothing wrong with using the deadly knob to increase tension but there's a dozen other knobs on the same platform you might as well use them.

Of course, I never said it was the only knob to use. I tend to use many different tools to make engaging encounters.

 

[robus]

1-2 rounds is about typical for 5e fights, and bosses can go down fast if the party can focus and has lots of nova potential.

One concept I've been considering is allowing Legendary Resistance to apply to initiative checks. If the boss monster rolls terribly for initiative and is likely to only get to act once and then die, let it spend a Legendary Resistance to bump its spot in the initiative order up to second or third.

I’ve decided that in future I’m just going to go with 20+Dex for bosses and 15+Dex for tough guys. Leaving important NPC initiative entirely to chance often wrecks their threat.

 

[Ancalagon]

7 rounds sounds like a good duration for a major fight in 5e...

 

[Xeviat]

@Xeviat , quick question: Are you looking for fights to last longer or be more deadly/threatening?

If you want fights to last longer, give monsters more HP or AC and/or methods to deal with the effects your PCs are inflicting (higher saves most likely).

If you want fights to be more threatening, reduce PC HP. This solves almost all the issues with monsters being weak.

Last longer so that more cool things can happen. I've been building my own monsters a lot, stealing 4E ideas in a lot of places, but only mythic monsters get to stay around long enough to do anything.

 

[Xeviat]

7 rounds sounds like a good duration for a major fight in 5e...

Once more, this was a mythic, so two fights, with a very dynamic lair that denied a few turns around the way. It being about 3 rounds for each phase didn't feel "epic". The challenge was tuned right, the players were biting their nails and almost went down a couple of times (there was one real good moment where one character was one other character's one decision away from getting swallowed by lava), but there was something about the scope that was missing.

In the fight leading up to it, against the big bad they had been after the entire game, that going down in 3 really quick rounds was super anti-climactic. It was a good thing it was a false final fight or the campaign would have ended poorly.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I've been using maximised HP* for some some monsters I want to be solos. The characters are very low level so they really don't yet need terribly dangerous boss foes.

*I.e. the maximum amount their HP formula would allow to roll.