Maximized spell, then rolls a crit

[Liquidsabre]

Figuring the amount of damage for a critical hit is based on multiple hits equal to the crit multiplier. For spells the crit multiplier is x2, so the amount fo damage is equal to a maximized scroching ray hitting twice.

For the case of an empowered and maximized scorching ray = 24 + 12 = 36, hitting twice (a spell crit) with this ray would = 72 points of fire dmg. Keep in mind this is the equivalent of critting with a 7th level spell heh.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Perhaps, but the general leaning for similar situations such as empowered maximized spells is that the extra damage is rolled normally then added.

That's not a 'general leaning for similar situations'. That's the rule for the specific combination of the Empower Spell and Maximize Spell feats.

For example, Complete Arcane does not say any such thing about the Energy Admixture feat. If you apply the Maximize Spell feat to a Cold-Admixed Fireball, you're Maximizing a spell that deals 10d6 fire + 10d6 cold. There's nothing to say that you only Maximize half of that spell (as there is for an Empowered Fireball).

-Hyp.

 

[Orm]

If I´m getting this right, normally when adding stacking bonuses to an effect, all bonusses are calculated with the original number as a base. The range increment of a longbow (100ft) of distance (RIx2) used with far shot (RIx1.5) is 100ft+100ft+50ft=250ft and not 100ftx2x1.5=300ft. Or (in 3.0) the threat range of a keen (x2) rapier (18-20) with improved critical (x2) is 12-20 and not 9-20.

By the same logic, I´m sure the same applies to spells too, but I can´t cite a rule. So, the damage of a maximised empowered scorching ray on a crit should be 4x6(maximised)+4d6(crit)+2d6(empowered)=45 av.

 

[Caliban]

That's not a 'general leaning for similar situations'. That's the rule for the specific combination of the Empower Spell and Maximize Spell feats.

For example, Complete Arcane does not say any such thing about the Energy Admixture feat. If you apply the Maximize Spell feat to a Cold-Admixed Fireball, you're Maximizing a spell that deals 10d6 fire + 10d6 cold. There's nothing to say that you only Maximize half of that spell (as there is for an Empowered Fireball).

-Hyp.

I would disagree with that. Each feat affects the base spell, they do not affect the other feats.

 

[Khristos]

The crit is coming purely on the base attack and is not modified by any other feats in regards to the maximize. So say 4d6 becomes 48 however any additional damage potential by a feat would not be included within the maximization (ie the maximize effects only the base spell and not the empowerment)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would disagree with that. Each feat affects the base spell, they do not affect the other feats.

So does an Extended, Cold-Substituted Flaming Sphere deal Cold damage for 10 rounds (C-Sub affecting the base duration) and Fire damage for 10 rounds (Extend affecting the base spell)?

Does an Expanded, Acid-Substituted Lightning Bolt deal Acid damage in a 120 foot line (A-Sub affecting the base range) and Electricity damage for the next 120 feet (Expand affecting the base spell)?

What if it's a Fireball instead of a Lightning Bolt, cast to appear beyond the normal limit of Long range? Is the A-Sub wasted, since the base spell (which it affects) can't reach that far... only the Expanded spell (which it can't affect)?

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

I thought I remembered you Hyp talking long ago about the fact that some metamagic feats affect the "base spell" and others don't specify so and therefore affect the already metamagicked spell completely. Have you changed your mind, or was it someone else?

Personally I like keeping it simple and I've always applied all metamagic on the whole spell (also just in case there might be issues of order). I even don't like the official Maximise+Empower "special rule" and may not care at all about that, in case it ever comes up.

 

[Caliban]

These are silly questions Hype. Each feat is affecting a different part of the base spell, so they don't interact with each other at all. The only complexity comes when two feats modify the same component of the base spell (such as Maximize and Empower) or when part of the spell is duplicated (Twin spell, Repeat spell, Chain spell, and/or Split Ray).

So does an Extended, Cold-Substituted Flaming Sphere deal Cold damage for 10 rounds (C-Sub affecting the base duration) and Fire damage for 10 rounds (Extend affecting the base spell)?

The Extend feat affects the duration of the spell, it has no effect on the damage.
The Energy substitution affects the damage of the spell, it has no effect on the duration.

Does an Expanded, Acid-Substituted Lightning Bolt deal Acid damage in a 120 foot line (A-Sub affecting the base range) and Electricity damage for the next 120 feet (Expand affecting the base spell)?

The Expand feat has no effect on the damage of the base spell, just the length of the line.
The Energy Sub has no effect on the length of the line, just the damage.

What if it's a Fireball instead of a Lightning Bolt, cast to appear beyond the normal limit of Long range? Is the A-Sub wasted, since the base spell (which it affects) can't reach that far... only the Expanded spell (which it can't affect)?

-Hyp.

Same answer.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So what you're saying, Caliban, is that every metamagic feat is applied to the base spell only, except when they're not?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I thought I remembered you Hyp talking long ago about the fact that some metamagic feats affect the "base spell" and others don't specify so and therefore affect the already metamagicked spell completely. Have you changed your mind, or was it someone else?

Probably someone else. My position has always been that Maximize and Empower specify that when used together, each affects the base spell... but that's not stated anywhere in the rules for any other combination of metamagic feats.

-Hyp.