Maxwell's Silver Hammer: On Spells, Design, and the feeling of Sameyness in 5e

[DND_Reborn]

That's generally where I'm at. I'd say 3 spell lists for wizard, cleric, and druid I'm pretty fixed on. Paladin and ranger as half-casters for cleric and druid, respectively, also works well. Sorcerer, bard, and warlock I'm pretty flexible on. I can see valid arguments for several different approaches, more drastic changes, or even dropping entirely.

And paladin should definitely be a "known" caster, not prepped caster.

Cool. FWIW, there are only about a dozen spells that aren't in one of the three main lists.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Another thing I would think about is removing prepared spells from Paladin. That way, all the half-casters would use known spells?

Artificer is prepared instead of known, so you would have to patch them too.

 

[Tonguez]

A lot of this is good stuff TwoSix!

My only suggestions would be to make Sorcerers half-casters and give more for them, and allow Bards to choose from all the lists. This would reflect more the idea to me of a bard learning from all sources whenever he can. Sorcerers can benefit from more metamagic or something?

that’s sounds more like a Sage than a Bard, personally I’d rather Bard get a few unique meta-magic inspirations based on their creative use of mainly utility spells.

 

[Stoutstien]

Artificer is prepared instead of known, so you would have to patch them too.

Strip spells off them completely and expand magic tinkering to fill the void.

 

[Big Bucky]

The different schools of magic for the wizard were pretty disappointing to me too. I was hoping there would be more separation of spell choices between them and stronger differentiation in the buffs to each school.

 

[TwoSix]

2) Or require damage cantrips to be activated using a slot? 1 Min for a 1st level slot, 1 Hr for a 2nd, 8 Hrs for a 3rd? (maybe with concentration?)

That could definitely work, but I'm liking the idea of removing damage based at-wills in general more and more. For my personal game, I'd lean towards making some new 1st-2nd level spells that let you take an action to do a cantrip level effect for a minute with concentration. That and some uncommon wands that let you cast a damage cantrip, but have X charges.

3) Or give them additional daily spell slots based on Int Modifier?

I'd prefer to gate additional resources behind rests, to prevent nova potential.

4) I'd give bards the access to all spell lists as full casters, but also no cantrips (lore bard can poach cantrips?)

6) Sorcerers become the arcane half-caster, get all metamagic abilities, get all arcane cantrips, and don't need to use spell slots to activate damage ones. Also give back sorcery points on short rest.

All those could work. I like a lot of sorcerer and warlock stuff mechanically, but am less invested in their tropes and narratives. I'm happy to twist them around or steal their stuff to give to other classes.

 

[TwoSix]

Cool. FWIW, there are only about a dozen spells that aren't in one of the three main lists.

Yea, those aren't too difficult to deal with. It's more the spells that occur on two or three lists that are troublesome, especially if there's historical precedent on one side but thematic resonance on another. Like spells that evoke elemental power, such as Wall of Fire. I can see pretty compelling reasons to give it to Druids or to Wizards.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yea, those aren't too difficult to deal with. It's more the spells that occur on two or three lists that are troublesome, especially if there's historical precedent on one side but thematic resonance on another. Like spells that evoke elemental power, such as Wall of Fire. I can see pretty compelling reasons to give it to Druids or to Wizards.

Well, I am working on it now and my idea anyway was to devote spells to cleric and druid first since they have fewer, and then see what is left for the wizard. Cherry -picking here and there afterwards if I feel I need to restore some to Wizard.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Minigiant]

I do think the spells and magic are too samey

I think the issue is that too many iconic spells were included that there was no room for experiment without a 4th starting book.

I say we spell all spells into 10-12 list and have each class get a number of lists based on their class and subclass

Druids get Animal Plant Fungus and Disease. Circle druids get Fire Earth Water or Air based on their terrain type.