[Md20] The generic classes

[ced1106]

I still can't wrap my head around the generic classes. Modern characters don't have the stereotypes like fantasy ones. Why not a CoC d20 base class, and feats, skills, and prestige classes to customize the character?

Now, d20 Anime. **There's** a "modern" genre that would have enough stereotypes to create classes...


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[Ranger REG]

I believe that's the idea behind d20 Modern base classes, to make a slight departure from the known D&D.

 

[pensiv]

One option I haven't heard about in regards to d20M classes is that you could easily start your PCs with a few levels in a few base classes and start adventuring with an Advanced Class.

This would capture a more "heroic" feel and open up some pretty exciting early games.

 

[Henry]

In my opinion you might be looking in the wrong places. Television and movies have abundant examples of the six base classes.

Just a very few follow.

Strong Hero - Bruce Lee; B.A. Baracus from "A-Team"

Fast Hero - Wesley from "Angel" (now, not in his buffy days), any jewel thief on TV

Tough Hero - Colt, the main character from "The Fall Guy" TV Show; Any TV thug who is tough and burly

Smart Hero - The Lone Gunmen from the X-Files; Fox Mulder; Ross Gellar from "Friends"

Dedicated Hero - Hawkeye Pierce from "MASH"; many of the doctors from "ER"

Charismatic Hero - "Face" from "A-Team"; Joey from "Friends"

Of course, some of these are better matched with the Advanced classes - but remember that they had to START at the base classes to get there.

 

[Tonguez]

I agree that the ability based classes were a novel idea, but think that overall they were not well executed and some of them have flaws and design gaps.

It may have been better to have one'base class' (or two as in CoC) and then allow Talents (open to all but with a ability score 13+ prereq), feats and skills be used to customise a character.

Its unfortunate that the designers still wanted the 'class system' in place which as you said is not really practical in a generic modern setting where 'class' stereotypes don't always apply.

So when will we see a Classless D20?

 

[danzig138]

I disagree

While I like the setup used in CoCd20 (super similar to the one I was developing before I learned they were doing the game, damn them!), I think the classes used in d20M are just fine, and fit nicely with what they were trying to accomplish. It seems a touch less mundane than CoCd20, which I am cool with.

 

[Henry]

Interesting note: I was working on a system that used levels, and base 8 skill points, and which used skill points for purchase of EVERYTHING - from saves, to base attack bonus for certain weapon proficiency groups, to feats and class abilities. It came to me when I realized that the CoC offensive and defensive classes simply assigned two "good" columns out of four choices: Reflex, will, fortitude, and Base Attack Bonus.

If you raise the max. skill points to max class level +4 instead of +3, then you can buy Base attack Bonus and saves by a metered formula. Then, assign a cost of, say, three skill points for purchase of a bonus feat or pool of low-powered class abilities. Start with a d4, and require one skill point per hit die increase. The rest of the points go into skills, on a one for one basis, and forego cross-class skills and class skills.

I never fleshed it out beyond rudimentary status, but in theory, one could use such a system to make a d20 system of Levels ONLY.

 

[Jeph]

You know, they have it set up so that it's very easy to convert into single-class format. Here's how:

Construct your Base Class at level 1. Distrubute 9 Class Points (CP) between Skills, Attack, Defense, Hit Dice, and Saves. Every 4th level, the character's Reputation increases by +1.

SKILLS
Characters have double their base skill points in Class Skills.
CP . Skills
00 . (3 + Int mod) at level 1, 3+ Int mod at each additional level
01 . (5 + Int mod) at level 1, 5+ Int mod at each additional level
03 . (7 + Int mod) at level 1, 7+ Int mod at each additional level
05 . (9 + Int mod) at level 1, 9+ Int mod at each additional level

ATTACK
CP . Attack
00 . as Smart hero
02 . as Tough hero
04 . as Strong hero

DEFENSE
CP . Defense
00 . as Smart hero
02 . as Tough hero
04 . as Fast hero

HIT DICE
CP . Hit Dice
00 . d6
01 . d8
02 . d10

SAVES
Each Poor save costs 0 CP. Each Average save costs 1 CP. Each Good save costs 2 CP.

At every even numbered level, characters will recieve a Bonus Feat.

At every odd numbered level, characters will recieve a Tallent. They must have 11+ in the appropriate ability for 1st level talents, 13+ for second level tallents, 15+ for third level tallents, and so on.

 

[evildmguy]

Classes

Okay, I am still trying to be positive with regards to life and d20.

Generic classes - I think if you think backwards with these, they might make more sense. (I haven't read everything of d20M so bear with me.) For example, first you decided you want to play an adrenaline junkie, then you figure out which class best fits that mold. For some ideas, hacker, doctor, combat, the decision is more obvious and straight forward. This might give some other ideas in ways you didn't think. For example, the adrenaline junkie could go for Daredevil eventually, but could get there through Fast, Tough or Strong. Really, they could go through Smart, but probably wouldn't stay that way.

In the end, I think that classes are here to stay for d20 and that's why they used them. CoC may be an exception to that, not the rule. I mostly liked what CoC did although I still think HPs get a bit high.

btw, Henry, I would say that Wesley from Angel is a dedicated hero. Recent episodes show that he is dedicated but not a fighter.

[goes off topic]
Hmm. This brings up a good question. Wesley got a good weapon to help him compensate for not being a good fighter, compared to Gunn. The hint was that while anyone would be good with it, it really helped Wesley. Any way to model this in d20M that people can think of? Can you give a bonus only to a certain person? Or, perhaps, it gives Wesley Quick Draw and a surprise attack?

I agree, that starting with a group of PCs who are already Advanced classes could be a good way to do things.

I also agree with who ever said, on another thread, that the weapons don't seem deadly enough. (Insert your own rant on HPs here.) At the same time, if the system is going to use HPs, I think it should truly use them. Say that the massive damage threshold instead gives a -1 penalty to all rolls except damage instead of reducing to -1 HPs. This is cumulative with each MDT attack that happens. Then, once per fight, a combatant gets a Resist Pain check (Fort DC 10) and for every 5 points higher than the check, they get to reduce the penalty by an additional 1.

For example, a Tough hero with 90 hit points, gets hit four times for 12 points damage in one round. *Ouch* Besides being reduced to 42 hit points remaining, he is at -4 on all rolls except damage. If he wants to make a Resist Pain check, he can. Let's say he gets a 21. He reduces the penalty by 3, to a -1. (one at 10, 15 and 20). If he had gotten a 19, it would be reduced by 2.

How does that sound?

With regards to non lethal, I like the base idea but I think we are dealing with people who will take damage. What if you treat non lethal as subdual as per DND? or, if you want to fight longer, each time a person takes subdual equal to his CON (not in one blow), he is at the -1 penalty. Shows the effects of fighting and fatigue.

Ideas? Comments?

edg

 

[danzig138]

Re: Classes

btw, Henry, I would say that Wesley from Angel is a dedicated hero. Recent episodes show that he is dedicated but not a fighter.

Recent episodes have shown him busting out firearms, but they have, IIRC, shown him cleaving a creature in half with an axe, and previous episodes have shown that he has become rather skilled in melee, and it was already established that he is a hack of a shot. He is certainly no slouch in armed combat.