D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

[robus]

Right. Because engaging them like this worked out so well for Marvel and Ghostbusters.

How about we try effective tactics and not suicide bombings?

The Marvel reference is eluding me? They seem to be riding high, what cost have they brought upon themselves?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

The Marvel reference is eluding me? They seem to be riding high, what cost have they brought upon themselves?

they went with a big intersectional/feminist push in the writing of a lot of the comics, switched main characters to minorities. Iron Man is a black teenage girl, Thor is a woman who seem to spout a lot of feminist slogans while fighting sexist villians, Spider-man is a latino/black kid now, etc. Progressives hailed it while sales dropped. People seemed to want Spidey to be Peter Parker, even if Miles Morales is a good character.

 

[Shasarak]

Hell she may have been hired because she had the balls (so to speak) to ask for a job and that is respectable IMHO. Is she the absolute best candidate, probably not, was she in the right place, right time with the right attitude probably.

With those incredibly niche job requirements I cant see any other experienced person actually qualifying unless they can get one of Paizos staff.

 

[Wiseblood]

The Marvel reference is eluding me? They seem to be riding high, what cost have they brought upon themselves?

The cinematic universe is doing great. The comic books have made some coices that alienated their fanbase, as a result they have suffered some possibly significant declines in sales.

 

[Zardnaar]

they went with a big intersectional/feminist push in the writing of a lot of the comics, switched main characters to minorities. Iron Man is a black teenage girl, Thor is a woman who seem to spout a lot of feminist slogans while fighting sexist villians, Spider-man is a latino/black kid now, etc. Progressives hailed it while sales dropped. People seemed to want Spidey to be Peter Parker, even if Miles Morales is a good character.

I think the solution is to create new strong female characters rather than blow up existing lore.

Imagine if they remade Star Wars and cast Luke as a female lol. Easier to create Rey or Mara Jade from the old legends books. I think Ghostbusters had that problem, 4E did as well, and see how well Wonder Women did.

Strong female character types that are original yay (Rey, Buffy, Wonder Women). Replacing beloved characters with minorities and women to be progressive not so much. If you want a kick ass black character in Star Wars for example cast an actor in a role and make it happen (Mace Windu and Lando fan here).

Some things you can kind of get away with (female Doctor Who perhaps see how that one plays out), female James Bond not so much (create a new franchise with female spy/agent).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

they went with a big intersectional/feminist push in the writing of a lot of the comics, switched main characters to minorities. Iron Man is a black teenage girl, Thor is a woman who seem to spout a lot of feminist slogans while fighting sexist villians, Spider-man is a latino/black kid now, etc. Progressives hailed it while sales dropped. People seemed to want Spidey to be Peter Parker, even if Miles Morales is a good character.

What they failed to realize was that many minority supers fans (like myself) like the established characters as is, and would much rather they launch new minority characters that succeed or fail on their own merits rather than...errr...”reskinning” old characters. In a way, it feels like “hand-me-downs”.

Instead of Thor being made female, why not create a character based on the Valkyries? Or the Furies? Or Athena? Durga? Sekhmet? The Morrígan?

Hell, it doesn’t even have to be NEW characters. Instead of making Iron Man a black girl, write better stories for War Machine, Luke Cage and Falcon.

 

[epithet]

I think the solution is to create new strong female characters rather than blow up existing lore.

Imagine if they remade Star Wars and cast Luke as a female lol. Easier to create Rey or Mara Jade from the old legends books. I think Ghostbusters had that problem, 4E did as well, and see how well Wonder Women did.

Strong female character types that are original yay (Rey, Buffy, Wonder Women). Replacing beloved characters with minorities and women to be progressive not so much. If you want a kick ass black character in Star Wars for example cast an actor in a role and make it happen (Mace Windu and Lando fan here).

Some things you can kind of get away with (female Doctor Who perhaps see how that one plays out), female James Bond not so much (create a new franchise with female spy/agent).

The worst was Thor. If they want to make Jane a thunder goddess, fine... but Thor is the dude's name ffs. They thought they could take a dude's name away and just call him "Odinsson" and all the comic book fans would go right along with that?

Of course, I've been disappointed with comic book Thor since I was a little kid. I wanted the fierce giant-smasher with the chariot pulled through the sky by two giant goats, not some surfer dude with inexplicable knock-off Shakespearean diction.

The only argument in favor of "re-casting" existing characters is that I don't think there are any names left in the Marvel universe. Pretty much any "code name" you can come up with has had at least one superhero use it already.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

What they failed to realize was that many minority supers fans (like myself) like the established characters as is, and would much rather they launch new minority characters that succeed or fail on their own merits rather than...errr...”reskinning” old characters. In a way, it feels like “hand-me-downs”.

Instead of Thor being made female, why not create a character based on the Valkyries? Or the Furies? Or Athena? Durga? Sekhmet? The Morrígan?

Hell, it doesn’t even have to be NEW characters. Instead of making Iron Man a black girl, write better stories for War Machine, Luke Cage and Falcon.

Exactly. It lame that the best they apparently think they can do for minority characters is to shackle them to the past of some classic white character. I realize there is a ton of brand equity in Spider-man but come up with something new, if its good and interesting it will probably sell. Though the Thor one was the worst I thought, OK so Jane Foster is now Thor. But I read some issues that seemed more like a political rant than an attempt at interesting storytelling though I make no claims to have delved deeply into what is going on in that book.

 

[epithet]

What they failed to realize was that many minority supers fans (like myself) like the established characters as is, and would much rather they launch new minority characters that succeed or fail on their own merits rather than...errr...”reskinning” old characters. In a way, it feels like “hand-me-downs”.

Instead of Thor being made female, why not create a character based on the Valkyries? Or the Furies? Or Athena? Durga? Sekhmet? The Morrígan?

Hell, it doesn’t even have to be NEW characters. Instead of making Iron Man a black girl, write better stories for War Machine, Luke Cage and Falcon.

Damn, you're right... how has The Morrígan not been made into a Marvel character already? Hero or villain, works either way. I'd buy it on the name alone.

 

[Warpiglet]

My whole concern about dismissing and "firing" people for various offenses is that there are quite a few casualties in between. For example, are we firing anyone who questions a woman, anyone who has an idea that is not totally inclusive, anyone who is not up on current terminology about various problems in society, anyone not enlightened enough, the willfully ignorant or just the openly hostile? And are they all the same? Can't know from a tweet.

At the end of the day, I am not going play games with overt racists and sexists. Don't want that in my home, don't want my kids to witness that...conflicts with my values. Simple.

But tweets (when not carefully worded) invariably leads to some of the posts in this thread where people are ready to "fire" one another for a lack of ideological purity. Count me out. With all of my flaws I will end up on the chopping block next for something. Not intentional or conscious sexism or racism but something.

So I think Mearls is right: how ignorant are we when we reject someone's work a priori based on their genitals or identity (I am assuming that is what led to the tweet). I wish he would have been a bit cleaner in execution.

In discussing a hobby on a fan site, people are now parsing language, doubting the purity of eachother's ideas and so forth. Who is a roach? Who should be barred from the community? Aha! I caught you showing how bigoted you truly are! and so forth.

Someone upthread said make the "roaches scatter"--get rid of them. Are we to the point of passing judgment about the inherent worth of other fans and stomping out those that are lacking? Ugh. Stomp out the BEHAVIOR. So when Mearls makes his tweet, he errs when he seemingly describes what sounds like a subset of the playing population.

I suspect he wants people to knock it off with misogynistic attitudes. I heartily agree. However, i find no one gets enlightened by being told to f-off. And if enlightening others is not the goal and you DO just want people to f-off, what a poor message on so many levels.

I agree with being welcoming to others and have defended Mearls. However, the sort of debate that emerges with careless devaluation of others is counterproductive. I think Mearls is right if I am interpreting his tweet correctly. And yet after a while I start getting irritated with the self righteous pedantic stuff...and the wholesale hatred and rejection of others who are not "enlightened enough." Oh right, even though I agree, even though I don't engage in this behavior I am just "butt hurt." See how quickly an ally becomes worth less?

Exactly why I leave social medial alone or at least have HUGE personal and professional separation. You cannot tweet indefinitely without putting your foot in (no matter the purity of your intentions).

I have no idea how good the new designer is going to be. My expectation is that she will be quite good. But this is based on extant data--I have universally liked 5e products to date. I am not sure why suddenly WOTC would pick someone incapable. Further, I do not know why her sex would have much to do with it either way.

Happy gaming. Don't be Neanderthals. Have fun. I have a game tomorrow and cannot wait!