High Level of Play, Low Level of Fun
January 8
We never really playtested high level play in 5e. We didn't have the time. Even if we did test it, I'm not sure much would have changed. As our deadline bore down on us, we had to prioritize which parts of the game received the most focus. High levels seemed to be something that groups either figured out and used, or an area of the game that a group ignored. We typically found that if a solution looked like 3e, players approved of it. So, high level 5e looks like high level 3e. Which means that it, like high level 3e, is hard to DM and play.
It's common for most groups to play D&D in its sweet spot, somewhere around levels 3 to 8 or so. Give that it takes dozens of regular sessions to reach level 10, then dozens more to go all the way to 20, I don't think most game groups ever reach those levels even if they want to. Stringing together 30 to 40 sessions before you can start playing at level 11 is pretty rare.
If you do reach high level, your reward is not particularly clear to me. You get more powerful class features and bigger numbers, but the game play itself remains the same. The core cycle of how you do stuff remains static.
Finally, monsters at high level start to break down. The alpha strike problem allows PCs to burn through monsters at a prodigious rate. You have to dip into the topmost reaches of CR to build encounters for characters. If you try playing through levels 11 to 20, you likely run low of monsters around level 16. You still have four levels to go!
The challenge here is that the current system takes the level 1 to 10 progression and keeps scaling it up until level 20. Fundamentally, I don't think that works. I think the games need a new direction.
So, here is what I am building.
A New Cap System
I want the game to shift quite a bit at level 11. For the first 10 levels of the game, the game's core loop works well. Beyond that point, I think the loop itself breaks down. Here are all the topics I think a design needs to tackle.
Before diving in, if high level play works for you then this project isn't for you. However if you find high level play difficult to manage but the idea of playing at 18th level sounds fun, then this one is for you.
So, here is what I see three core issues with high level play:
- Speed of Play. At high levels, character sheets become character books. The option progression that worked in the sweet spot, say up until level 8, leads to increasingly cluttered character sheets as it layers more and more stuff on to a character. At high level, characters need to focus on the key, powerful abilities that let them take on might enemies and adventure in exotic locations. The clutter needs to go.
- Appropriate Challenges. By my count, there are about 80 monsters at CR 11 and higher in the Monster Manual. That's not a lot for the entire second half of a campaign! Compounding things, the CR system assumes that characters spread their resources out over 20 or more rounds of combat per day. It fails to account for the party's ability to unload their most powerful options and win the action economy. It is very difficult to challenge a high level party with the CR system, and the lack of options puts enormous weight on DMs.
- Worldbuilding. The lack of a clear framework makes it hard to envision how a high level campaign works. From levels 1 to 10, most DMs can envision how dragons, chimeras, orcs, and giants fit into the campaign world. At low levels, you handle creatures that feel like a part of the world. You can see how they fit in. At high levels, the world building shows its cracks. Is a high level dungeon just a hole in the ground with tougher monsters and bigger treasure? Are high level fighters just warriors who swing their swords more often? I think that undermines the feeling of high level play as an epic tier of power. I want high level play to embrace the heroic.
So, where do we start? Here are my first ideas for each point. You'll see details on them as my work begins.
For characters, I am working on an alternate advancement scheme for characters at levels 11 and higher. When you go from level 10 to 11, you hop from your class's advancement table to a new, 10-level advancement table. Casters look a bit like warlocks, with fewer slots and spells but all of those options resting near the top of their power curve. Spells like fireball that sit at the bottom of the power curve (the lowest level version, to be clear - its 27.5 points of damage doesn't do much to epic monsters) displace cantrips.
Martial characters need truly epic abilities to stand out. Roughly speaking, I want to amp up their heroic abilities by liberating them from the grid and breaking the action economy to let them grab the spotlight. For instance, I want fighters to have attacks that assume they can move through a 30-foot radius area and attack everything in there without slowing the game down with 20 die rolls.
For monsters, the level, role, and rank system I've created is scaling up well. The monsters stats might look wild at first glance, but in play they provide a sufficient threat to characters. So far testing is going well. If the system holds up, it'll be much easier to design effective high level enemies.
Finally, for world building I want to create adventure frameworks that give high level gaming a place in the typical fantasy world. Dungeons make sense for levels 1 to 10. What's the equivalent for high level play? I have ideas!
So, that's a new project I'm tackling in 2026. Moldvay and Odyssey continue, with Moldvay rounding into shape. The player's guide is a complete draft, and the DM's guide is coming together. I'll be sharing the toolkits for dungeons and the wilds, along with the bestiary and the magic items, in the coming weeks. The high level project runs in parallel with it.
