Mearls Monster Makeover: Beholder

[Wrathamon]

The fix is not to get rid of the effect (turning someone to stone), it's to change the mechanic which gives you that result. (Someone else's suggestion of having the effect deal Dex damage is excellent. Very similar to my Con damage solution to other save-or-die effects. It's been incorporated into my house rules already.)

thanks I am glad you liked my suggestion.

The correct way to fix the rust monster (by removing his save-or-die ability) is simple:

On a successful melee touch attack, the rust monster's rusting ability deals 1d10 points of damage to a single metal object carried or worn by the target, bypassing that object's hardness.
... done.

I sorta disagree here, it is in the right direction... you basically have given the rust monster the ability that adamantine gets. Which I think is still not enough. I believe a damage roll is needed and it bypasses DR, but I think it should act more like Heat Metal does in a way. The damage starts off slowly, then increases in next couple rounds, then fades. Most weapons will be destroyed by the time the effect wears off, but they can still use them in the mean time. Make Whole would repair the damage and dispel the rust monster effect. Mending would delay the damage.

What do you think?

 

[Raven Crowking]

I sorta disagree here, it is in the right direction... you basically have given the rust monster the ability that adamantine gets. Which I think is still not enough. I believe a damage roll is needed and it bypasses DR, but I think it should act more like Heat Metal does in a way. The damage starts off slowly, then increases in next couple rounds, then fades. Most weapons will be destroyed by the time the effect wears off, but they can still use them in the mean time. Make Whole would repair the damage and dispel the rust monster effect. Mending would delay the damage.

What do you think?

We have a winner.

 

[Justin Bacon]

I sorta disagree here, it is in the right direction... you basically have given the rust monster the ability that adamantine gets. Which I think is still not enough. I believe a damage roll is needed and it bypasses DR, but I think it should act more like Heat Metal does in a way. The damage starts off slowly, then increases in next couple rounds, then fades. Most weapons will be destroyed by the time the effect wears off, but they can still use them in the mean time. Make Whole would repair the damage and dispel the rust monster effect. Mending would delay the damage.

I like it. Although I'd make it a flat damage per round rather than the heat metal effect, but that's because I always found tracking the damage for heat metal to be a headache (and tracking multiple such effects across multiple items seems like it would be even more of a headache).

Induce Rust (Su): On a successful melee touch attack with its antennae, the rust monster can induce a single metal object carried or worn by the target to corrode. An item targeted by this ability suffers 1d6 points of damage per round, bypassing that object's hardness. If the object is taken more than 20 feet away from the rust monster, or if the rust monster dies, the damage stops. A mending spell will also stop the damage. As long as the item is not completely destroyed, a make whole spell or a successful Craft check can repair the item normally. A metal weapon that deals damage to the rust monster is automatically affected by this ability.

Ignore the bit about Craft checks being used to repair the item unless you've added repair rules.

(The D20 Modern repair rules aren't too bad, but I dislike that: (a) The complexity of the item being repaired doesn't affect the check; and (b) your skill has no affect on how long it takes you to repair it. The latter is just a flaw in the D20 Modern system in general, of course.

Personally, I use margin of success: Make a Craft check to represent an hour's work. DC is set by the type of item, just like any other Craft check. You repair a number of hit points equal to your margin of success on the check. On a failed check, you've caused 1 point of damage to the item.)

 

[Wrathamon]

That works for me and DMs can increase the Damage to a D8 or D4 if they feel it is too much.
Each individual DM can tune the damage to their personal tastes.

I like the Heat Metal idea just because I think it helps give an interesting visual and mechanical representation of the corrosion effect, but I agree it is a more difficult mechanic to keep track of.

 

[Kalshane]

Based on the suggestions in this thread, how does this sound to people:

Flesh to Stone
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

The subject of this spell takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) and 1d10 +1 per caster level (maximum +15) points of Dexterity damage. A succesful Fortitude save reduces this the hitpoint damage by one half and the Dexterity damage to 4 points.

If the subject is reduced to 0 hit points or 0 Dexterity by this spell, the subject and all its carried gear, turns into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the subject (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities. The creature is not dead, but it does not seem to be alive either when viewed with spells such as deathwatch.

Only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell.

Material Component
Lime, water, and earth.


Too much? Too little? Should the succesful save do more?

 

[delericho]

Flesh to Stone
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

The subject of this spell takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6) and 1d10 +1 per caster level (maximum +15) points of Dexterity damage. A succesful Fortitude save reduces this the hitpoint damage by one half and the Dexterity damage to 4 points.

If the subject is reduced to 0 hit points or 0 Dexterity by this spell, the subject and all its carried gear, turns into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the subject (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities. The creature is not dead, but it does not seem to be alive either when viewed with spells such as deathwatch.

Only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell.

Material Component
Lime, water, and earth.

I would ditch the hit point damage aspect, and have the spell only do Dex damage. I would have a successful save halve the Dex damage, and negate the 'turn to stone' effect (such that a Restoration, rather than Stone to Flesh, is enough to restore the character).

I'm also not sure about the dice type of the Dex damage - I think perhaps that's a bit high. But on that point I'm less sure than the others.

 

[Cheiromancer]

How about this: If the initial Fort save fails it does 2 points of Dexterity damage, and another 2 points every round, for 1 round/level. The subject can attempt a save each round to negate that round's damage. If their Dexterity reaches 0 they turn to stone.

This version might only be a 5th level spell. Dunno. Maybe it should do Dexterity damage even on a successful save, but only for one round.

 

[mirivor]

Nevermind.

 

[Kalshane]

I would ditch the hit point damage aspect, and have the spell only do Dex damage. I would have a successful save halve the Dex damage, and negate the 'turn to stone' effect (such that a Restoration, rather than Stone to Flesh, is enough to restore the character).

I was trying to use Disintigrate as a base, but I liked the Dex damage idea suggested elsewhere. The idea was to make it equally likely of working against both tanks and rogues (barring a sucessful save). The tank has hit points to burn, but his Dex isn't that great. The Rogue has a lot of Dex, but not a lot of HP.

On the other hand, I see where you're coming from in that it's an unneccessary complication and even on a successful save, the character is still going to hurt.

How about this: If the initial Fort save fails it does 2 points of Dexterity damage, and another 2 points every round, for 1 round/level. The subject can attempt a save each round to negate that round's damage. If their Dexterity reaches 0 they turn to stone.

That's weaker than the already existing 4th level Call of Stone spell Plane Sailing quoted above.

Call of Stone works good as a slow devolution into stone. Flesh to Stone should be instant, being 2 levels higher.

Okay, how about this:

Flesh to Stone
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous, 1 rd/level (see below)
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

The subject of this spell takes 1d6 +1 per caster level (maximum +15) points of Dexterity damage and is slowed, as per the spell, for 1/rd per caster level. A succesful Fortitude save reduces the Dexterity damage to 4 points and reduces the slow effect to one round.

If the subject is reduced to 0 Dexterity by this spell, the subject and all its carried gear, turns into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the subject (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities. The creature is not dead, but it does not seem to be alive either when viewed with spells such as deathwatch.

Only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell.

Material Component
Lime, water, and earth.

Another variation would be to introduce more variable to the Dex damage and change it to 1d6 per 4 caster levels (so it starts off at 2d6 for Wizards and 3d6 for Sorcerers) max of 4d6, save reduces the Dex damage to straight 1/2.

 

[delericho]

Flesh to Stone
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous, 1 rd/level (see below)
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

The subject of this spell takes 1d6 +1 per caster level (maximum +15) points of Dexterity damage and is slowed, as per the spell, for 1/rd per caster level. A succesful Fortitude save reduces the Dexterity damage to 4 points and reduces the slow effect to one round.

If the subject is reduced to 0 Dexterity by this spell, the subject and all its carried gear, turns into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the subject (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities. The creature is not dead, but it does not seem to be alive either when viewed with spells such as deathwatch.

Only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell.

Material Component
Lime, water, and earth.

I prefer this version. The addition of the Slow effect is a nice touch. I might simply negate the slow effect on a successful save, though, rather than have to deal with it for a single round.