D&D 5E Mearls on other settings

[Zardnaar]

Nonsense. The mists grab anyone; it's up to them to determine if they can hide well enough to survive.

And it depends on the domain as well; being an elf on Barovia gets you a funny look; in Darkon it doesn't raise an eyebrow, and in Tempest it gets you lynched. Yet in no version of RL (black box, red box, DoD, 3e Arthaus, or CoS) has any race been outright banned. Nor any class, even if paladin is tantamount to having a bullseye on you forehead...

Ravenloft is an exception though and once again its designed that way. The mists can get anyone (even Athas apparently). The mists are a major part of Ravenloft IMHO, the Darksun races, classes and world are a major part of of that setting.

TSR sort of had this shared multiverse which kind of did not work that well and they had several setting built to share it (Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Planescape) and it mostly matches the evolution of the TSR worlds. For example Spelljammer out of the box only had 3 of the TSR settings (FR, Greyhawk, Krynn). TSR also blew up their own worlds with metaplot and went bankrupt over it.

Eberron originally had its own planar structure and was its own thing. FR had rules that contradicts other settings so while in FR for example you follow those rules, if your FR character starts Spelljamming, gets sucked into Ravenloft or travels the plains then you follow those rules.

Athas was cut off with very few exceptions such as Dregoths planar gate, the Ravenloft mists (which were multidimensional). Not all of the TSR/WotC worlds used the great wheel and neither did the 4E setting. Its not required IMHO.

 

[SkidAce]

Monks do not fit either as they do not really fit the flavour of the setting and mechanically its a way around the lack of metal.

I could see monks meditating in the harsh wilderness of Dark Sun.

 

[Zardnaar]

Dark Sun, as I said before, isn't really a D&D setting. It's a separate game that uses the skeleton of the D&D rules. They should have cut the cord and been made it's own game. It's shotgun marriage to the D&D rules has hindered more than helped.

Dark Sun should be viewed more like Gamma World than Dragonlance, imho.

You could make a fairly good argument about Nerath/4E using that logic.

Did you know/care that Darksun, Nerath and Eberron all have differnet multiverses than default D&D (FR, GH, Krynn).

Not sure about Birthrights multiverse I think they were part of the Great Wheel.

 

[Zardnaar]

I could see monks meditating in the harsh wilderness of Dark Sun.

Perhaps but Monks on Athas were mentioned in the orignial material but were more similar to cloistered monks not the D&D martial artist.

Monks do not really fit the setting on Athas as it is kind of a way to get around the material issue combined with the wuxia vibe should IMHO disqualify them from Athas for thematic reasons. On Athas you use crap materials or inferior weapons, want metal or a better material go exploring.

 

[Mouseferatu]

There is our fundamental disagreement; a setting should expand the game, not contract it. ... Any setting that is defined by what it takes away rather than what it adds is a waste of resources.

Dark Sun, as I said before, isn't really a D&D setting. It's a separate game that uses the skeleton of the D&D rules. They should have cut the cord and been made it's own game. It's shotgun marriage to the D&D rules has hindered more than helped.

You're right. It's a fundamental disagreement. I 100% believe that new settings should, as was said elsewhere, expand in some directions and contract in others, if that's what best fits their mood and aesthetic. They're better, and thematically stronger, for doing so.

And I view Dark Sun as absolutely no less of a D&D setting than Forgotten Realms or Eberron, and I would have less interest in it if it were broken off into its own thing, a la Gamma World.

 

[Remathilis]

You could make a fairly good argument about Nerath/4E using that logic.

Did you know/care that Darksun, Nerath and Eberron all have differnet multiverses than default D&D (FR, GH, Krynn).

Not sure about Birthrights multiverse I think they were part of the Great Wheel.

It's less to do with the Great Wheel (that is a different thing altogether). How much of the PHB is valid? (Races, classes, equipment, or spells?) How much of the DMG? How many monsters from the Monster Manual? How much new stuff needs to be made to have it even function at a basic level? At a certain point, DS looks less like a D&D setting and more like a new game stapled onto the D&D combat system.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's less to do with the Great Wheel (that is a different thing altogether). How much of the PHB is valid? (Races, classes, equipment, or spells?) How much of the DMG? How many monsters from the Monster Manual? How much new stuff needs to be made to have it even function at a basic level? At a certain point, DS looks less like a D&D setting and more like a new game stapled onto the D&D combat system.

Couldn't you make the arguement about 4E doing that though? More or less was a new game with the D&D logo on it and would perhaps been better off as its own thing (D&D tactic?).

2E was kind of odd by D&D standards it actually had more splat than 3E and 4E (probably 3E +4E combined). I'm not 100% sure but I think they tried to make it almost like a generic RPG system as 2E was very creative in that way and the designers could almost do anything they wanted.

Funny thing is 4E was very incomplete when it landed and you could play a complete 2E DS game with less material than what I would consider you would need for a decent 4E game. For a good DS game you would need

core 2E books
Complete Psionists
Darksun boxed set
Darksun Monstrous Compendium

Anything more than that is gravy. When we 1st played it we just used the boxed set+ psionist book+core books.

What would you consider the bare minimum for a good 4E game? Core books+ arcane/martial/divine books and whatever book fixed the math from the core books (Monster Vault?) access to DDI (basically all of the 4E books).

The hardcore 4E fans seem to like it because it is different to ye olde D&D, personally I have the same opinion on Darksun, I like it because its different. I'm sure fans of the other game worlds have the same opinion if its a bit different (ie not FR, GH, DL or Mystara).

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, applies to real life as well (getting hell drunk, using certain drugs, invading Iraq etc).

 

[Shasarak]

That there is exactly what I'm afraid of and why I think a Dark Sun 5e could end up a terrible idea. You took 9 races and 12 classes in the PHB and reduced them to 4 races and 6 classes. Rather than expand the game with new options and flavor, you chop it in half for sake of genre emulation. Might as well leave my PHB at home, because its verging on useless.

Rather than say "X doesn't exist", why not find it a home? Make Sorcerers defilers and Wizards preservers? IIRC 4e Dark Sun had no problem fitting tieflings and warlocks into DS, as well as giving spellcasting to the bard class. (In fact, 4e Templars are warlocks; how's that for mind-blowing?) You don't need to fit everything in there, but I think you can do better than 6 classes and 11 subclasses.

If Dark Sun cannot accommodate new material and must remove half of the PHB content for sake of "purity", then it should be chucked to the dust bin of history.

Did we not already have that with the 4e Dark Sun that had everything in the PHB shoe horned in somewhere on Athas? Personally it is hard for me to say if that helped or hindered the product more then the actual rules set did.

I would much rather have, for example, a Dragonlance setting book that specifically had Kender instead of Halflings and Draconians instead of Dragonborn while including a side bar for the DM on ways that they can include Halflings and Dragonborn on a case by case basis.

 

[Shasarak]

Depends on the setting, Athas was cut off from the D&D multiverse though RAW and it had its own planar cosmology and you could not Spelljam there.

You could get there through the inner elemental planes (on a one way ticket). I have also read fan based Spelljammer material in DarkSun Space.

 

[Shasarak]

TSR also blew up their own worlds with metaplot and went bankrupt over it.

There should be some sort of meme: I hate X and TSR did X, therefore TSR doing X caused them to go bankrupt.