Mearls talks about his inspiration for the 4e classes

[Fifth Element]

I thought Gandalf was a fifth-level magic-user?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wonder if the actual wizard had any wizardy inspiration. Not that cribbing Gandalf for the Invoker makes him illegal to use as a wizard, of course, but D&D wizards haven't been very Gandalf-y ever.

I also wonder if mearls's experience of fantasy inspiration coming later is something that the rest of the team had, as well -- in other words, that they might start with, say, a mechanical inspiration or a 3e class that needs an analogue, and only worry about the fantasy you can distil from that after the initial inspiration.

Something like "We need a healer who is not the cleric" -> Warlord, or "We have all these neat cleric attack spells that didn't get used" -> Invoker/Avenger.

I also wonder how much their inspiration matches the ideas that come later. Thinking about it after mearls's comment, Gandalf = Invoker makes some sense, but before then, what was Gandalf to you in D&D? And what was the Invoker?

Well, D&D spells and magic system is kinda based on Vance books, and I suppose the wizards in his Dying Earth novels must have bee kinda like the D&D Wizards. At least that's what I gather from the various discussions on "Vancian Magic".
The mechanical roots supposedly were Artillery pieces from war games. I don't know if that is really true, though it kinda makes sense. (And it is probably not coincidence that many 4E monsters that are Wizards/Spellcasters by fluff do have the Artillery role).

Imagine just a world where it was not Vance and Artillery pieces as inspiration, but really Gandalf or Merlin. What would we have? Spellcasters more like Beguilers, Druids or Bards? Magic that is often subtle, confuses the mind of people, or having power about the elements (like the elements of Weather, not like bat guana explosions) and animals or plants?

---

The Invoker to me would probably have been a Cleric that focuses not on buffs, healing or melee enhancement spells but on stuff like Flame Strike or Command. I visualize Invokers as Stargate SG1 Ori priests.
A "real" Wizard might have been somethig like a Beguiler, Bard or Druid, with a lot less fleshy spells for the Druid (no Flame Strike).

A Warlord to me might be someone like Roy from Order of the Stick. I know he is supposedly a Fighter, but frack, he is consistently smart and charismatic, he is the one leading the team and the guy with the plan. He is like many movie and literary characters in charge of a team. Of course, in movies, this leader guy is also the protagonists and will often be found alone, which damages this image, of course.

 

[Voadam]

Gandalf is an older bearded man in robes with a pointy wide brimmed hat who never wears armor. He carries a staff and smokes a pipe. He is very learned, actively adventures, and uses magic (though very conservatively). He is called a wizard.

I can see him as an archetypal inspiration for wizards throughout D&D's history.

 

[Klaus]

Gandalf is a parfect match for an Invoker (robe + staff + subtle magic + divine origin).

I don't know the character that inspired the Avenger, but I get a strong "Solomon Kane" vibe from it.

I totally agree on the Conan-as-Fighter-Rogue thing. And he DID wear armor every now and then (mostly in his days as a mercenary).

 

[Voadam]

I thought Gandalf was a fifth-level magic-user?

I read that article too and agree.

Spells include: Pyrotechnics, knock, ventriloquism.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

The model for the Avenger should be this guy.

And the inspiration for the Wizard in D&D was never a fantasy wizard - it was a person copied from the real world: the angry, book-loving nerd that really wished that he could kill you with his brain.

 

[Voadam]

I totally agree on the Conan-as-Fighter-Rogue thing. And he DID wear armor every now and then (mostly in his days as a mercenary).

Why do you see Conan as a multiclass rogue in 4e? I have only skimmed the 4e PH but my understanding is that rogue powers work only with light weapons while Conan uses big swords and axes with which these would not work. Also anybody can pick up skills like stealth and fighters already get the physical one which takes care of his super climbing. What does 4e rogue multiclass give the build besides the name association with Conan's time as a thief?

Rogue multiclass as the 4e Conan concept seems a holdover to old edition mechanics when that was how you could simulate Conan's skills (plus the fact that he was a thief).

 

[Aus_Snow]

I get the comparison.

In LotR, Gandalf is a lot more of a divine figure than a simple wizard. He doesn't have a spellbook, he doesn't have a tower, and his magic is usually not flashy. Instead, whenever he does something supernatural, it's calling upon his divine nature... You know, Keeper of the Flame of Udun, etc.

I don't necessarily think Gandalf when I think Invoker though. Frankly, I think Moses is a better model for the class.

(and this goes for several others, most likely) I wasn't saying or implying that he's meant to be a Wizard, btw.

But thanks, for at least kinda vaguely referring to what the Invoker is about. That's more than most have given out.

So, invokers call upon their divine nature? Sure, I can see that then. And they look the part as well, someone said?

 

[deganawida]

(and this goes for several others, most likely) I wasn't saying or implying that he's meant to be a Wizard, btw.

But thanks, for at least kinda vaguely referring to what the Invoker is about. That's more than most have given out.

So, invokers call upon their divine nature? Sure, I can see that then. And they look the part as well, someone said?

Invokers are Old Testament prophets, basically. They use rods and staves to symbolize the sovereignty of their gods, and call down fire from the heavens to smith their enemies. Think Moses and Elijah in a fantasy setting, and you probably have a great idea of what they're like.

 

[Klaus]

Why do you see Conan as a multiclass rogue in 4e? I have only skimmed the 4e PH but my understanding is that rogue powers work only with light weapons while Conan uses big swords and axes with which these would not work. Also anybody can pick up skills like stealth and fighters already get the physical one which takes care of his super climbing. What does 4e rogue multiclass give the build besides the name association with Conan's time as a thief?

Rogue multiclass as the 4e Conan concept seems a holdover to old edition mechanics when that was how you could simulate Conan's skills (plus the fact that he was a thief).

You know what? You're absolutely right.

Fighter trained in Stealth, Athletics, Endurance, Nature, Perception, Intimidate maybe also Insight, cover just about anything Conan might do. He might even be a Battlerager fighter. He might be multiclassed as Ranger for Hunter's Quarry (and this would get him the training in Nature or Stealth).