Mechanics Dogma - Requirements for a system

[Storm Gorm]

Sounds like you should be looking at Heroquest, Unknown Armies, Over the Edge or, as Joshua Dyal suggests, something even more freeform. Rpg.net is a better forum and you should also check out the game design fora at The Forge (www.indie-rpgs.com)

Many thanks, Luke. The list is getting longer, and my motivation growing stronger.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Go with FUDGE if you are going to bother with mechanics at all.

#6 is a whopper but doable. You do not really want typical RPGers who as a whole tend to like heroics and conflict. You want a group of creative artist types who are hip to play directed Let's Pretend.

My wife says she had a group of artist friends in college where they might assume the roles of characters in a partially written novel and play/think through where their goals and perspectives might carry them.

 

[jmucchiello]

Clever, clever. Do you think i would have ever learned anything if i wouldnt allow myself to post as inflammable queries as this one? Ive never been trying to teach you, rather the opposite, i wanted to gather response from you true experts. Or, to test both your arguments and mine - which actually does concur sometimes.

It is much easier to learn by listening than by shouting. It is also easier to learn by limiting your assumptions. Your posts seem like close-minded pontifications on the one-true-way. This does not make people open to listening to you. It is more likely to put them on edge. Perhaps a better tact might have been "Does anyone know of a less rules-intensive RPG besides D&D? I want to promote more immersion in my gaming and am having trouble doing this with the amount of miniatures rules in D&D." That would have been a cooler thread. (And while it would have been just as heated, the heat wouldn't have been pointed at you.)

And quite frankly, yes, I was being clever, but I was hoping to make a point. The point being that philosophy of role-playing is not a new subject. There are many books and articles about what role-playing is. In the end, you will find that neither the extreme you are tauting nor the wargame extreme is right or wrong. Most people move and play along a continuum between them. None of these people are playing wrongly, just differently.

And as someone else said, your list of rules is missing something: Fun. Fun should be first and foremost and every other bullet point should include the caveat "unless doing so causes the game to be less fun."

I dont intend to be aggressive, it seems you read my posts that way, well, dont.

Don't? Don't?!? You would ruffle fewer feathers by saying "this is not my intention if that is how I'm coming off please try to read it this other way" rather than using the commanding imperative.

Then again, i may be doing the very same mistake right now...

Perhaps.

 

[Desdichado]

Have you as little goodwill as the expression of the face of your avatar? I know that D&D and d20 is the focus of this messageboard, but still, it seems to be surprisingly locked in that perspective. Anyways, we can kill this here and now, after all rpg.net has been mentioned many too many times already.

Why surprising? Why would you come to a website dedicated to d20 and be surprised that people on the forums of that site are gung-ho about d20? Whatever thought process could possibly lead you to any other conclusion boggles the mind. Even given that, you've got a boatload of suggestions here for alternate games and alternate places to look for even more. If that's not what you want, and you'd rather have a discussion about your theories, I'd be happy to point out where I think you're dead wrong, but (see below) it seems unlikely that you'd actually listen to me. Rather, it seems you were hoping to come post controversial subject matter on a message board that was unlikely to be receptive to your ideas, and yet you still expect to be heralded as some prophet who has shown us a better way than we ever could have imagined. I've been roleplaying (off and on, it's true) for a good twenty years or so -- I doubt anything you're going to say at this level of detail is something that I haven't thought of, or even tried out. I have a fair amount of experience with what is actually practical and what works. In theory, with the right group of gamers, what you suggest is possible. I don't necessarily enjoy that type of game, though -- and moreso, that theoretical group that can actually do well with that type of game is extremely elusive. I've never found one.

And I don't know what you mean about my goodwill. I grant that you made an effort not to be condescending and absolutist starting off this new thread, but I also made an effort to be helpful, point out games you may like and websites that cater to your more particular tastes.

But subsequent posts from you show that that goodwill was an extremely thin veneer; you've already slipped into the same posting habits you cultivated in the prior two threads on the same subject.

Im not sure what you mean by that, but no. I cant. I dont believe there is. But thats far beyond this chatter. And even further beyond my english skills to communicate. Nomatter.

What I mean by that is you essentially have no respect for any opinion that differs from your own, and you seem to lack any understanding that your opinion isn't an empirically, scientifically provable fact. It's bad enough that you come across this way on the Internet where there are no body language or inflectional cues, but from your descriptions you seem to come across the same way to your own gaming group, hence the heated arguments. In other words, you lack basic social skills. If you were ever to play a charismatic character, you would need to use social rules to pull it off.

 

[Wolv0rine]

Umm, guys. I think you've over-looked one small snippet that may at least in part be behind how offensively crass Storm Gorm comes across.

Im not sure what you mean by that, but no. I cant. I dont believe there is. But thats far beyond this chatter. And even further beyond my english skills to communicate. Nomatter.

(Bold mine) Now I Could be wrong - I don't know this guy from Adam - but I got the impression that that might imply that english isn't his primary language. That being the case, if it's a not-that-strong non-primary language, that might explain the rude word choices.

Or, you know, maybe not. But it's a guess.

As to coming to a website About d20 to to say you hate everything about d20, makes no sense to me, but hey, I'm a regular around here, so why should it I guess. I wouldn't go to a Backstreet Boys fan site to say how much I abhor the BSB, either. Go figure.

 

[Desdichado]

Umm, guys. I think you've over-looked one small snippet that may at least in part be behind how offensively crass Storm Gorm comes across.



(Bold mine) Now I Could be wrong - I don't know this guy from Adam - but I got the impression that that might imply that english isn't his primary language. That being the case, if it's a not-that-strong non-primary language, that might explain the rude word choices.

Or, you know, maybe not. But it's a guess.

As to coming to a website About d20 to to say you hate everything about d20, makes no sense to me, but hey, I'm a regular around here, so why should it I guess. I wouldn't go to a Backstreet Boys fan site to say how much I abhor the BSB, either. Go figure.

True, but you also highlighted the part about English as a second (or more) language, but didn't highlight the fact that he did in fact agree that there's no difference between his opinion and an objective fact! He was stating that he didn't feel comfortable enough with English to explain that position, though...

 

[Mystic_23]

I wouldn't go to a Backstreet Boys fan site to say how much I abhor the BSB, either. Go figure.

Unless you were trying to intentionally troll. That would be the only reason to go to such a forum and state such things.

I don't believe that that is what Storm Gorm was doing, however. He just didn't realize that people on this forum would be unreceptive to another system that isn't D&D(D20). I'm sure now he'll either not post as such...or, judging by the response to this thread, perhaps would leave this forum altogether.

To get back on target for the discussion of this thread, I'd say that I agree with a lot of points made. When I was reading Storm Gorm's post the first thought that went through my mind is that he'd be better off playing Amber (which is the only game like this that I have any experience with). Also, for me, the fun of it is what is more important. If it wasn't fun, I probably wouldn't play.

To (hopefully) illustrate this point, I was a theater major in college. I'd been in a lot of plays through high school and college, and I did that for the same reason. The fun of it.

I think, all in all, Storm Gorm is really into this for the fun of it, just like the rest of us. He just has other criteria to achieve that. If he can find other like-minded people, that is great.

 

[Storm Gorm]

Unless you were trying to intentionally troll. That would be the only reason to go to such a forum and state such things.

I don't believe that that is what Storm Gorm was doing, however. He just didn't realize that people on this forum would be unreceptive to another system that isn't D&D(D20). I'm sure now he'll either not post as such...or, judging by the response to this thread, perhaps would leave this forum altogether.

To get back on target for the discussion of this thread, I'd say that I agree with a lot of points made. When I was reading Storm Gorm's post the first thought that went through my mind is that he'd be better off playing Amber (which is the only game like this that I have any experience with). Also, for me, the fun of it is what is more important. If it wasn't fun, I probably wouldn't play.

To (hopefully) illustrate this point, I was a theater major in college. I'd been in a lot of plays through high school and college, and I did that for the same reason. The fun of it.

I think, all in all, Storm Gorm is really into this for the fun of it, just like the rest of us. He just has other criteria to achieve that. If he can find other like-minded people, that is great.

What he said.

Ill be using the forge and rpg.net for any metamechanics discussions, but enworld is still great! Though only for a narrower scope than what i initially thought.

Though i might have upset some people here in the process, i believe i have earned enough experience points to levelup.

Now, please, kill this thread. Id like to blanken my slate again.

 

[shadowlight]

Fight, Fight, Fight!!​

This is fun for us spectators!

 

[Zappo]

It takes more to kill a thread.
Seriously, it seems to me that SG has found lots of useful information. I didn't even know about several of those games.
This forum is about general RPG discussion, and you can talk about any system or style. But it is on a d20 site, so attacks on d20 (especially about wholly subjective points) are likely not to be a good opening.