Summer-Knight925
First Post
What is your stance on games who focus on mechanics more than setting? Or games where the mechanics come from the setting?
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Mechanics vs. Setting
- Thread starter Summer-Knight925
- Start date
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
I voted setting first, before mechanics, but to answer Jonesy, if I may, Rite Publishing publishes my setting, Kaidan, a Japanese Ghost Story. It's designed for PFRPG, but it definitely has it's own mechanics separate from the system.
Much of the Kaidan setting sits around a specific cosmology and reincarnation mechanic unique to the setting, and closely following ideas of Buddhism, at least the premise leading up to Buddhism. There are six Buddhist hells - those who fail to become enlightened are sentenced to one of them based on specific sins committed in life. In Kaidan, the six hells are each tied to a different social caste (nobles, samurai, commoners, animal, hungry ghost/hinin, and jigoku/hell.) When you die, your soul spends karma points gained in your character's life that determine which social caste you go in the next life.
Aside from some differences regarding haunts, honor , unique spells and magic items, and some new class designs, Kaidan uses the PFRPG system rules for everything else.
The setting specific mechanics apply to help Kaidan be set apart from other settings, otherwise fluff and roleplaying is how it stands out, setting is more important than mechanics.
Much of the Kaidan setting sits around a specific cosmology and reincarnation mechanic unique to the setting, and closely following ideas of Buddhism, at least the premise leading up to Buddhism. There are six Buddhist hells - those who fail to become enlightened are sentenced to one of them based on specific sins committed in life. In Kaidan, the six hells are each tied to a different social caste (nobles, samurai, commoners, animal, hungry ghost/hinin, and jigoku/hell.) When you die, your soul spends karma points gained in your character's life that determine which social caste you go in the next life.
Aside from some differences regarding haunts, honor , unique spells and magic items, and some new class designs, Kaidan uses the PFRPG system rules for everything else.
The setting specific mechanics apply to help Kaidan be set apart from other settings, otherwise fluff and roleplaying is how it stands out, setting is more important than mechanics.
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I voted other, because it depends.
I am a notorious HEROphile. It's my favorite system, bar none. I have used it to run games in its own setting, homebrews in a variety of genres, and even in the campaign settings of other games, like RIFTS, Space:1889 and even D&D (cherrypicking across editions, even).
But sometimes, a setting has elements that are not conducive to being run in anything else but a system tailor made for it. A HERO version of Amber wouldn't feel right, nor would it work well for CoC without extensive work. Hell- I'm doing a Fantasy HERO version of M:tG, and even though the game will ultimately run quite smoothly, the way I have to use the HERO mechanics to simulate M:tG mechanics is, occasionally, convoluted and requiring of some system mastery- "tapping mana", especially COLORED mana, was the first hurdle.
A M:tG RPG designed from the ground up would probably be far more elegant.
I am a notorious HEROphile. It's my favorite system, bar none. I have used it to run games in its own setting, homebrews in a variety of genres, and even in the campaign settings of other games, like RIFTS, Space:1889 and even D&D (cherrypicking across editions, even).
But sometimes, a setting has elements that are not conducive to being run in anything else but a system tailor made for it. A HERO version of Amber wouldn't feel right, nor would it work well for CoC without extensive work. Hell- I'm doing a Fantasy HERO version of M:tG, and even though the game will ultimately run quite smoothly, the way I have to use the HERO mechanics to simulate M:tG mechanics is, occasionally, convoluted and requiring of some system mastery- "tapping mana", especially COLORED mana, was the first hurdle.
A M:tG RPG designed from the ground up would probably be far more elegant.
I think of mechanics that support setting/genre and there are only a few that I like and am willing to play.
Brave New World, L5R, 7th Sea, Call of Cthulhu, Chill (Pacesetter and Mayfair Games editons), Cyberpunk 2013 and 2020, Earthdawn, Shadowrun, Star Wars d6, Torg, oWorld of Darkness, Warhammer Fantasy all have great settings. I would and/or have purchased products for all of the above with the exception of Brave New World, but you could not get me to play any of them due to the system mechanics.
There are settings for pre-3e D&D. I like Al Quadim, Birthright, Dark Sun (pre-revised), Forgotten Realms (pre-3e), Greyhawk (folio and boxed set), Mystara/Known World Gazetteers, Ravenloft and would run under other systems, but not under pre-3e D&D rules.
Then there are the Corex+ games (Marvel, Leverage, Smallville). I admire the design and want them on my shelves, but they are not my style to run or play. I think Spectrum Games's Capes, Cowls and Villains Foul and their Cartoon Action Hour Season 2 are going to fit into this category as well.
Now, I would run any of the settings above with Savage Worlds, Cortex (classic), a slightly house ruled Cinematic Unisystem, True20 (if wanting a level/class system) or, for super heroes, Mutants and Masterminds 2e
Brave New World, L5R, 7th Sea, Call of Cthulhu, Chill (Pacesetter and Mayfair Games editons), Cyberpunk 2013 and 2020, Earthdawn, Shadowrun, Star Wars d6, Torg, oWorld of Darkness, Warhammer Fantasy all have great settings. I would and/or have purchased products for all of the above with the exception of Brave New World, but you could not get me to play any of them due to the system mechanics.
There are settings for pre-3e D&D. I like Al Quadim, Birthright, Dark Sun (pre-revised), Forgotten Realms (pre-3e), Greyhawk (folio and boxed set), Mystara/Known World Gazetteers, Ravenloft and would run under other systems, but not under pre-3e D&D rules.
Then there are the Corex+ games (Marvel, Leverage, Smallville). I admire the design and want them on my shelves, but they are not my style to run or play. I think Spectrum Games's Capes, Cowls and Villains Foul and their Cartoon Action Hour Season 2 are going to fit into this category as well.
Now, I would run any of the settings above with Savage Worlds, Cortex (classic), a slightly house ruled Cinematic Unisystem, True20 (if wanting a level/class system) or, for super heroes, Mutants and Masterminds 2e
Setting and mechanics need to go hand in hand.
System should emphasize the interesting traits of the setting and encourage a playstyle that fits the genre. If they don't fit, either the system will be ignored as players follow the fictional causality of the setting, or the logical consistency of the fiction will be violated by using the system as it is.
Quite often, the crucial part is not the rules themselves (numbers, rolls etc.), but the guidelines for interpreting what they represent in fiction. The same mechanical system may fit the setting or contradict it depending on the interpretation - that is something RPG books should focus on, but they rarely do.
System should emphasize the interesting traits of the setting and encourage a playstyle that fits the genre. If they don't fit, either the system will be ignored as players follow the fictional causality of the setting, or the logical consistency of the fiction will be violated by using the system as it is.
Quite often, the crucial part is not the rules themselves (numbers, rolls etc.), but the guidelines for interpreting what they represent in fiction. The same mechanical system may fit the setting or contradict it depending on the interpretation - that is something RPG books should focus on, but they rarely do.
Lord Mhoram
Hero
Mechanics first all the way. Settings - I can take or leave (my games usually are homebrew settings) but I want a solid rule set that is as setting neutral as possible.
After the rulebook itself is released then release settings for it, implementing the rules that are in the rulebook.... and did I mention that HERO system (notably 5th edition) is my favorite RPG.
I dislike games where the rules and setting are so intertwined you cannot untangle them. I may want the setting with different rules, or love the rules sytem but hate the setting, and have to figure out a way to pry them apart. For me the best games are the ones the Mix and Match.
After the rulebook itself is released then release settings for it, implementing the rules that are in the rulebook.... and did I mention that HERO system (notably 5th edition) is my favorite RPG.
I dislike games where the rules and setting are so intertwined you cannot untangle them. I may want the setting with different rules, or love the rules sytem but hate the setting, and have to figure out a way to pry them apart. For me the best games are the ones the Mix and Match.
Asmor
First Post
Mechanics are more important in my opinion. I may be odd, but I find crunch much more interesting than fluff.
Side note: In my own RPG I'm designing, the mechanics have actually informed the setting... I was trying to come up with a reason that mages should prefer light armor, and I had the idea that using magic generates heat. So that implies all sorts of things, such as mages preferring colder climes.
Side note: In my own RPG I'm designing, the mechanics have actually informed the setting... I was trying to come up with a reason that mages should prefer light armor, and I had the idea that using magic generates heat. So that implies all sorts of things, such as mages preferring colder climes.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Whatever the exact question you're getting at is, the answer is mechanics.
It's like asking which is more important to understanding the real world: the history of Russia or the laws of physics. It's not even close. Setting in rpgs is easily improvised and often unimportant. The mechanics can be improvised, but they always define the parameters of what you're doing.
It's like asking which is more important to understanding the real world: the history of Russia or the laws of physics. It's not even close. Setting in rpgs is easily improvised and often unimportant. The mechanics can be improvised, but they always define the parameters of what you're doing.
Summer-Knight925
First Post
Personally, I find the mechanics to be more important.
While the setting can be amazing (Rifts) the mechanics are odd.
In 4e, the mechanics are amazing (despite my personal dislikes of the game, it does run well) but the setting is, for me, not my favorite.
I have a special hatred in my heart for games that have setting and mechanics so close that you're playing the world, not a game.
While the setting can be amazing (Rifts) the mechanics are odd.
In 4e, the mechanics are amazing (despite my personal dislikes of the game, it does run well) but the setting is, for me, not my favorite.
I have a special hatred in my heart for games that have setting and mechanics so close that you're playing the world, not a game.
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