Medieval d20
- Thread starter bolen
- Start date
Psion
Adventurer
They are way different. And for that matter you are neglecting a third option: Legend of Excalibur. They are all really well done, IMO, but have different focuses.
Relics & Rituals: Excalibur is the most D&D of the three. It is essentially Arthurian flavoring for your D&D game, with magic. It doesn't assume that you will necessarily be playing in a psuedo-historical England, and the material mostly plays to existing D&D classes and notions. It does have a knight core class, various prestige classes, spells, and creatures.
Legends of Excalibur is actually a campaign setting. Unlike R&R:E, it goes into specific locales and includes specific figures, but also has a fair bit of game mechanics material. It changes more from the D&D baseline, with several new class, some displacing other classes that don't fit so well. It also features a spell point mechanic.
Medieval Player's Manual I just got done reading for a review. It's really well researched and probably clefts closest to historical Europe of any. Unlike the two Arthurian book, it's focus is a bit later, after the Norman invasion of Europe. It's main mechanical focus is systems and classes for magic and religion in line with the beleifs as they existed then. Despite the fact that this is very different from d20 magic, he does an impressive job. Also, a fair bit of the book is political, and there is even a system for emulating philosophical debate! There is also a bit of historical background and few historical figures (some statted) to run a campaign. It's probably a bit more roleplay oriented and less combat oriented than the typical d20 book.
Relics & Rituals: Excalibur is the most D&D of the three. It is essentially Arthurian flavoring for your D&D game, with magic. It doesn't assume that you will necessarily be playing in a psuedo-historical England, and the material mostly plays to existing D&D classes and notions. It does have a knight core class, various prestige classes, spells, and creatures.
Legends of Excalibur is actually a campaign setting. Unlike R&R:E, it goes into specific locales and includes specific figures, but also has a fair bit of game mechanics material. It changes more from the D&D baseline, with several new class, some displacing other classes that don't fit so well. It also features a spell point mechanic.
Medieval Player's Manual I just got done reading for a review. It's really well researched and probably clefts closest to historical Europe of any. Unlike the two Arthurian book, it's focus is a bit later, after the Norman invasion of Europe. It's main mechanical focus is systems and classes for magic and religion in line with the beleifs as they existed then. Despite the fact that this is very different from d20 magic, he does an impressive job. Also, a fair bit of the book is political, and there is even a system for emulating philosophical debate! There is also a bit of historical background and few historical figures (some statted) to run a campaign. It's probably a bit more roleplay oriented and less combat oriented than the typical d20 book.
DM_Jeff
Explorer
Better Book
OR
Atlas Games' "For Love and War"?
OR
RPGObjects' "Legends of Excalibur"?
Seems SOME folks at marketing were focusing on a particular film coming out this summer dealing with a familiar subject...
ANYWAY...
I plan on having a big examination of these books, comparing them, on my website DM's Haven soon. In the meanwhile here's some basics I recall:
GR's Medieval PHB: Written by Ars magica line developer. Author's advice on dealing with d20 magic in medieval times: "ignore it". Wow, thanks. Still, other treatments are A+.
Atlas' For Love & War: Also written by Ars Magica line developer. Has a magic wand that acts as a certain rocket-shaped female pleasure tool. Wow, thanks again. However, for chivalric roleplaying advice and the like: excellent.
Sword & Scorcery's Relics and Rituals: Excalibur: Looks pretty complete. And it actually doesn't dwell much at all on Authurian legend and the like, making it nice and open for other, similar play periods.
RPGObjects' Legends of Excalibur: Is written by someone who wants to capture the feel of Arthur's period in both rules and flavor and stays on track in that vein.
I will try to post back to this thread when I have completed my article.
-DM Jeff
bolen said:
OR
Atlas Games' "For Love and War"?
OR
RPGObjects' "Legends of Excalibur"?
Seems SOME folks at marketing were focusing on a particular film coming out this summer dealing with a familiar subject...
ANYWAY...
I plan on having a big examination of these books, comparing them, on my website DM's Haven soon. In the meanwhile here's some basics I recall:
GR's Medieval PHB: Written by Ars magica line developer. Author's advice on dealing with d20 magic in medieval times: "ignore it". Wow, thanks. Still, other treatments are A+.
Atlas' For Love & War: Also written by Ars Magica line developer. Has a magic wand that acts as a certain rocket-shaped female pleasure tool. Wow, thanks again. However, for chivalric roleplaying advice and the like: excellent.
Sword & Scorcery's Relics and Rituals: Excalibur: Looks pretty complete. And it actually doesn't dwell much at all on Authurian legend and the like, making it nice and open for other, similar play periods.
RPGObjects' Legends of Excalibur: Is written by someone who wants to capture the feel of Arthur's period in both rules and flavor and stays on track in that vein.
I will try to post back to this thread when I have completed my article.
-DM Jeff
morrigan
First Post
High Medieval D20
Just thought I'd put a shameless plug in here. Morrigan Press Inc. is currently developing a new OGL game called High Medieval.
It will contain elements found in both Green Ronin's Medieval book as well as the previously mentioned Legends of Excalibur from RPGObjects.
In a nutshell, the core game will be DnD-like with a little less fantasy and little more realty. Many of the most popular "optional" D20 rules are being used. (wounds & vitality replaces HP and spell points instead of slots for example).
The meat of the product line will be the many Regional Sourcebooks we will be releasing. The core rules will contain all the crunch while the supplements will contain all the historical, geopolitical and religious info you could want. Examples would be a book on England, one of the Holy Roman Empire, another on the Holy Lands, etc. Also, books on The Church of Rome, Knightly Orders, etc are scheduled for release as well
Each sourcebook will have basic and prestige classes specific to the region the book covers. The England book will of course contain info on playing the Archer class while the Celtic Lands book will have the Highlander, Druid and Bard classes along with others.
The setting is designed to be realistic and historically accurate with the execption of some fantasy elements. Magic works and Priest of the Church of Rome will be able to cast spells. Magic is not as '"flashy" as traditional DnD or Tolkien style fantasy games however.
Medieval people believed fairies lived deep in the forests and Dwarves dwelled in the mountains; in High Medieval this will be fact, not legend. That said non-humans will be rare and the game is defintely human centered. Adventurers may encounter and Ogre in the wilderness but there will be no hordes of marauding Orcs.
Anyway, just thought you folks interested in Medieval-style gaming might be interested in this. We do not have a release date set yet, but game development is well underway. We are hoping for any early 2005 release.
If anyone would like to know more, or has any questions feel free to contact us at morrigan@nbnet.nb.ca
Cheers,
Scott Agnew
President, Morrigan Press Inc.
-----------------------------
The Jeremiah Roleplaying Game
www.JeremiahPortal.com
Just thought I'd put a shameless plug in here. Morrigan Press Inc. is currently developing a new OGL game called High Medieval.
It will contain elements found in both Green Ronin's Medieval book as well as the previously mentioned Legends of Excalibur from RPGObjects.
In a nutshell, the core game will be DnD-like with a little less fantasy and little more realty. Many of the most popular "optional" D20 rules are being used. (wounds & vitality replaces HP and spell points instead of slots for example).
The meat of the product line will be the many Regional Sourcebooks we will be releasing. The core rules will contain all the crunch while the supplements will contain all the historical, geopolitical and religious info you could want. Examples would be a book on England, one of the Holy Roman Empire, another on the Holy Lands, etc. Also, books on The Church of Rome, Knightly Orders, etc are scheduled for release as well
Each sourcebook will have basic and prestige classes specific to the region the book covers. The England book will of course contain info on playing the Archer class while the Celtic Lands book will have the Highlander, Druid and Bard classes along with others.
The setting is designed to be realistic and historically accurate with the execption of some fantasy elements. Magic works and Priest of the Church of Rome will be able to cast spells. Magic is not as '"flashy" as traditional DnD or Tolkien style fantasy games however.
Medieval people believed fairies lived deep in the forests and Dwarves dwelled in the mountains; in High Medieval this will be fact, not legend. That said non-humans will be rare and the game is defintely human centered. Adventurers may encounter and Ogre in the wilderness but there will be no hordes of marauding Orcs.
Anyway, just thought you folks interested in Medieval-style gaming might be interested in this. We do not have a release date set yet, but game development is well underway. We are hoping for any early 2005 release.
If anyone would like to know more, or has any questions feel free to contact us at morrigan@nbnet.nb.ca
Cheers,
Scott Agnew
President, Morrigan Press Inc.
-----------------------------
The Jeremiah Roleplaying Game
www.JeremiahPortal.com
Wombat
First Post
Hmmm, Scott, that seems a really intriguing notion. I shall definitely have to look into it.
I like David Chart's two books (Medieval Players Manual and For Love & War); then again, I am an Ars Magica nut and have loved what he has done as a line editor for that game. If you are going for a Middle-Ages-as-the-nobility-believed-it-to-be feel, these supplements are your best bet.
Legends of Excalibur is interesting. I am still going through all of it, but it has a generally Mallorian feel to it. In other words, if you like High and Late Medieval Arthurian literature, this is a fairly safe bet for playing a similar game. I find a few of the choices odd (do you really need a Bard AND a Fool AND a Minstrel AND a Skald class?) and the Spectral Knights (I think "Spectrum" might have been a better term, since the author is referring to colour, not ghosts) are a bit strange (from my readings of Arthurian literature not all Blue Knights serve the Lady of the Lake, for example, and Purple Knights seems to be stretching the colour palatte available at the time), but the general rules on magic and the like will work well towards a game based on the romances; the whole notion of Nobility replacing Alignments is inspired.
As for Relics & Rituals: Excalibur ... well... I have no notion what it is really trying to recreated, but it doesn't appear to be any verions of the Arthurian legends I have ever run across, be it Celtic, Medieval, or modern. Instead it appears to be a number of types of fey acting out certain limited aspects of the legends. I find this book very strange. Despite the title, I don't find it Arthurian or even Medieval; instead it has more a feeling of the Count Brass and Chronicles of Corum cycles from Michael Moorcock -- slightly Celtic, definitely fey, muddled bits of various lores smooshed together. It could be good for that, but don't pick it up thinking you are getting something Medieval in the slightest.
I like David Chart's two books (Medieval Players Manual and For Love & War); then again, I am an Ars Magica nut and have loved what he has done as a line editor for that game. If you are going for a Middle-Ages-as-the-nobility-believed-it-to-be feel, these supplements are your best bet.
Legends of Excalibur is interesting. I am still going through all of it, but it has a generally Mallorian feel to it. In other words, if you like High and Late Medieval Arthurian literature, this is a fairly safe bet for playing a similar game. I find a few of the choices odd (do you really need a Bard AND a Fool AND a Minstrel AND a Skald class?) and the Spectral Knights (I think "Spectrum" might have been a better term, since the author is referring to colour, not ghosts) are a bit strange (from my readings of Arthurian literature not all Blue Knights serve the Lady of the Lake, for example, and Purple Knights seems to be stretching the colour palatte available at the time), but the general rules on magic and the like will work well towards a game based on the romances; the whole notion of Nobility replacing Alignments is inspired.
As for Relics & Rituals: Excalibur ... well... I have no notion what it is really trying to recreated, but it doesn't appear to be any verions of the Arthurian legends I have ever run across, be it Celtic, Medieval, or modern. Instead it appears to be a number of types of fey acting out certain limited aspects of the legends. I find this book very strange. Despite the title, I don't find it Arthurian or even Medieval; instead it has more a feeling of the Count Brass and Chronicles of Corum cycles from Michael Moorcock -- slightly Celtic, definitely fey, muddled bits of various lores smooshed together. It could be good for that, but don't pick it up thinking you are getting something Medieval in the slightest.
morrigan
First Post
GenCon
Morrigan Press will not have a booth a GenCon this year but myself and one of our writers will be in attendance. Our first major game, the Jeremiah RPG, will not be released in time for GenCon but will likely hit the shelves sometime before xmas. We plan on having a both at GenCon 2005 for sure.
We hope to find a few players interested in demoing the Jeremiah game at GenCon. If you are interested in this, or simply want to chat about High Medieval keep a lookout for us roaming the convention center. We'll be wearing black tshirts with the Morrigan logo on the front and a large graphic of Jeremiah and Kurdy on the back (for those not familiar with the Jeremiah tv show, Jeremiah and Kurdy are played by Luke Perry and Malcolm Jamal Warner).
Cheers,
Scott Agnew
President, Morrigan Press Inc.
Morrigan Press will not have a booth a GenCon this year but myself and one of our writers will be in attendance. Our first major game, the Jeremiah RPG, will not be released in time for GenCon but will likely hit the shelves sometime before xmas. We plan on having a both at GenCon 2005 for sure.
We hope to find a few players interested in demoing the Jeremiah game at GenCon. If you are interested in this, or simply want to chat about High Medieval keep a lookout for us roaming the convention center. We'll be wearing black tshirts with the Morrigan logo on the front and a large graphic of Jeremiah and Kurdy on the back (for those not familiar with the Jeremiah tv show, Jeremiah and Kurdy are played by Luke Perry and Malcolm Jamal Warner).
Cheers,
Scott Agnew
President, Morrigan Press Inc.
Do these various books use a more D&D model or a D20 modern model? I've been starting notes on a swashbuckling era setting, and I've come to the conclusion that the D20 modern paradigm is FAR closer to swashbuckling fiction than is the D&D paradigm, even if one throws in magic and other "fantasy" elements.
Vigilance
Explorer
Wombat said:
Thanks!
Hmmm... well... do you really need a Fighter AND a Barbarian AND a Ranger AND a Paladin?
Some of those options make sense (the Skald was designed to add an interesting flavor to combat with Saxons)... the Fool and the Minstrel are drawn directly from source material.
The Bard could have been disallowed... but I ultimately just decided to allow options options options...
I stretch the individual knights into orders of knights (I believe I mention that in their descriptions). My playtesters loved the idea, and most of the reviewers that have gone through it so far as well, so I ran with it.
As for the Purple Knight stretching the color palette... I can give you sources and page numbers... each and every single one of those colors appears in medieval Arthurian literature, most multiple times.
Thanks again for all the comments and compliments (and the interest)
Chuck
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