Meet or beat?

[Sunseeker]

Since we're all talking about to-hit rolls today(seems like it anyway), I thought I'd inquire as to what everyone's preference was in determining a successful attack, which basically boils down to two ways.

Meet: You must roll the exact target number or higher.
Beat: You must break the target number by some given value(for this discussion, 1).

Personally I have always felt that simply meeting the target number wasn't good enough. When I conceptualize AC(or any form of defense), I see it as you have X, therefore in order to get in a hit, you have to overcome it. IE: beat. It always struck me as odd that you only needed the target number, because that effectively means that the actual defense is that target number -1.

So, IMO, when rolling an attack, or a save, or whatever, you should have to overcome the target number, which way should 5e use?

What say you?

 

[Hussar]

Naw, too easy to make mistakes.

"What is the DC for X?"
"15"
So, that means I have to achieve a 16? Why not just make the DC 16? It's not intuitive. In any other game, your need an X, you roll an X. I don't roll a 6 to win in craps. I roll a 7.

 

[Lanefan]

Voted beat but should have voted other as it's situation-dependent.

In combat, you must beat the target. (probably in more ways than one!)

For saves and ability checks you need only match it.

Lanefan

 

[Hussar]

Voted beat but should have voted other as it's situation-dependent.

In combat, you must beat the target. (probably in more ways than one!)

For saves and ability checks you need only match it.

Lanefan

See, why?

It's never been this way, for one. THAC0 was there for a reason. I need a 15 to hit AC X, so, why bother saying I need to beat a 14?

And, please, if you go one way or the other, STICK to that way. Don't mix and match.

 

[Dragoslav]

When I first started playing, our DM preferred the "beat" rule, so that's what I had gotten familiar with. It seemed to make sense to me because it's like, you have X defenses, so to get past your defenses then the enemy has to exceed your ability to defend.

However, I'd never really thought about it until reading Hussar's post up there. Makes sense when you think of a defense as being analogous to any DC for a skill check or anything else.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I say meet for two reasons. First, it's a change that people would have to adapt to, so shouldn't be changed without a compelling reason.

Second, d20 is a target number system. It says AC on the character sheet, and uses the term DC to sound familiar, but in universal game terms, it's simply a target number. This is the number you have to roll to succeed.

The advantage of d20 was that it's core mechanic was that simple. Roll your die and add your modifiers. You need this number. That singular concept created a huge growth in D&D by making it more accessible. It may not be my favorite system, but I'd be loathe to alter that aspect of it.

 

[Dausuul]

Meet. It's simpler to learn and people are used to it. Here's the number you need to roll--now roll that number, and you make it.

However, I'd rather have either one (meet or beat) than a mix. For the love of Demogorgon, pick a mechanic and stick with it! I still remember trying to teach newbies in AD&D when they needed to roll low, when they needed to roll high, and which stats were better going up or going down. Ugh.

 

[GM Dave]

We've gotten in the habit of saying, 'tie goes to the defender'.

This has made it easy to remember how to handle AC. Player's like the feel that their AC saved them when that comes up.

 

[Hassassin]

I'd say meet as that's how it's been so far, but consistency is most important.

How about opposed rolls? Should the attacker win ties or the one with the highest modifier, or something else?

 

[Fanaelialae]

I'd say meet as that's how it's been so far, but consistency is most important.

How about opposed rolls? Should the attacker win ties or the one with the highest modifier, or something else?

I'd say in the case of opposed rolls, let the attacker win the tie. When the attacker wins, something happens. When the defender wins, nothing changes. IMO, it's more interesting to have something happen, rather than nothing.

As, for the poll, I voted for Meet. It's simple and effective. No need to clutter things up and confuse players.