It's always been "Meet". "Meet" is highly intuitive for DCs, and I while I can see "Beat" being somewhat more intuitive for attacks, having a mixture would be ridiculous. "Roller always wants to meet" is a good general rule, and I see no good reason to change it.
It gets iffy with opposed checks, though. I could see having a "tie" actually exist, and mean something, for those.
It gets iffy with opposed checks, though. I could see having a "tie" actually exist, and mean something, for those.
Tilenas
Explorer
Im all for beat DC, with the sole reason being that it allows us to use the system "D20 + stat vs 10 + stat" without giving an advantage to the side that rolls.
As to the "tie to defender/attacker" discussion: What is a tie in this system anyway? Aren't we talking about probabilities? If your attack bonus equals your opponent's AC, you should hit in 50% of all cases, right? At least that's how I see it. A "tie" means you rolled a 10. That's bottom half, hence the defender wins.
As to the "tie to defender/attacker" discussion: What is a tie in this system anyway? Aren't we talking about probabilities? If your attack bonus equals your opponent's AC, you should hit in 50% of all cases, right? At least that's how I see it. A "tie" means you rolled a 10. That's bottom half, hence the defender wins.
Now there's a good argument. If it enables a "player always rolls" system, I could see "Beat" becoming the standard. But then it's a question of whether "Meet, with d20+stat vs 11+stat" is preferable to "Beat, with d20+stat vs 10+stat". The former benefits from a ton of inertia from previous editions, while the latter is probably more intuitive for new players. Then again, if it's in a "Player always rolls", there's no real difference to them between base 11 or base 10; only the DM deals with that.
Hussar
Legend
What's wrong with giving the advantage to the side that rolls? As was mentioned earlier, it's more interesting to have something happen than not, so, why not give that 5% edge to the active participant?
I do get the "Tie goes to the defender" and it's something that has come up in game a few times when people can't remember which is which. But, honestly, I'd rather give the edge to the guy actively doing something. If I've got a +5 to climb, then I have a 55% chance of climbing a DC 15 wall.
Then again, when do we ever compare d20+bonus to 10+mod? This is a calculation that I can't think of a time where it actually comes into the game.
I suppose we could number dice from zero to 19 and that would work too.
Tilenas
Explorer
Who is the "active" party when somebody rolls a saving throw?
I take it you oversaw the example I gave. A standard attack roll uses exactly this mechanic. So do saves.
dkyle gives the reason "beat DC" is IMO superior: You can let players roll all the dice without having to change any numbers.
I also use it to substitute opposed rolls to keep the randomness in check: one side (usually the player) rolls, my NSCs/monsters take 10.
EDIT: All of this obviously also works with "meet DC", it's just that the side that doesn't roll has to add 11. Now, the question is: What is less elegant? Adding 11 or having to roll x+1 for DC x?
That is a change. So an attempt to "fix it".
What you're basically saying is "Meet for DCs, Beat for AC". Whereas it's always been "Meet" for all rolls, whether against DCs or AC.
As I said, I can see a case for change, but it should be consistent. Either always "Meet" or always "Beat". Mixing them is needlessly confusing. And I'd only want to see a change from what we're used to if it's for a good reason. I think switching to a "player always rolls" system is potentially a good enough reason.
Actually, this is a common mistake for people looking at a die. This is why people list 3.5 as the average on a d6.
1 to 9 is 45% of the die.
10 to 20 is 55% of the die.
If you consider 10 as the DC for no armour and use it as the '50%' mark then you have actually given a +1 or 5% to the roll.
The true 50% mark on a d20 is 11 (11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 totals 10 of 20 possibilities).
If you are aiming for a true 50% point then it should always be treated as 'beating' the AC as the aim of designers in 3e style DnD.
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