Meh. Maybe we won't.

[TheAuldGrump]

Scenario one

Complete PC control.

PCs roam around a wonderfully developed world delving into their own personal motives and aspirations. Collectively, after defeating several Big Bad Meanies, they quest out the great wizard, Wonderboy, to create a wonderful item for them, the Mighty Handy Bag of Everything. They bang at Wonderboy’s tower three days and three nights before they gain an audience. Going into intense negotiations, Wonderboy agrees to create the Mighty Handy Bag of Everything if at some time in the future they do one favour for him. Heartily agreeing with Wonderboy, they watch in amazement as he whips up the marvellous item before their eyes. Handing them the Mighty Bag of Everything, Wonderboy says “I only want one thing, please fetch me the McGuffin from the depths of the Useless Plot Device Mountains.”

PCs “Um, we’d rather not. Thanks for your time though. Bye.”



Scenario two

Complete lack of PC control.

The PCs are sitting at a bar. Wonderboy, the mighty wizard of Terribledmland dramatically sweeps in to the room squinting his eyes at the ruffians and rogues that frequent the establishment. Pausing on a couple of brutish looking individuals, he sets his gaze and stalks over. Whispering harshly to the two thugs who had handily thrown out the PCs the night before, he stands back sharply. “How dare you refuse…maggots.”
He then, with a negligent wave, disintegrates the two of them. Turning around with another quick glance at the establishment he stalks over to the PCs. “I only want one thing, please fetch me the McGuffin from the depths of the Useless Plot Device Mountains.”

PCs “Um, we’d rather not. Thanks for your time though. Bye.”



Isn’t it amazing how the question and the answer remained the same? Both are extremes for a reason. A little benefit of the doubt goes a long way.

You know, the closest I have ever seen to the first example was when the price that the DM tried was greater than the item was worth. And even that happened only once, the PCs returning the magic item. The DM went off in a huff, but frankly the item (+2 Flametongue) was not worth going after a very old red dragon with 7th level characters - and the sword wouldn't even be very effective against it! The DM has since stopped DMing, feeling that 3.X 'hamstrings DMs too much in the name of balance.' (That is a quote by the way.) He also started new characters at 1st level regardless of the experience level of the rest of the party.

The same DM would try the 2nd scenario on occassion too. I quit after the second or third time, but I have friends who stayed with the game, and all I ever heard were complaints about the DM. I could not help but wonder why they continued playing in his game.

Sadly he was not the only DM I have seen trying those shenanigans. I have come to fear the phrase 'I am not only running an adventure - I am telling a story!' It always seems to mean 'I am going to tell you what happens, and nothing that you can do will prevent it!'

The Auld Grump

 

[Wild Gazebo]

Yes. My two examples were two extremes...on purpose. Both are examples of what I feel is relatively poor DMing. But, one is an example of a PC oriented campaign and the other a completely DM dominated campaign. While I'm sure if anyone here cared to think about it, there are an infinite number of grey areas in between. The point being...we weren't told if the PCs got stuck into this situation or if the DM railroaded them into this situation, we weren't told how powerful the McGuffin is or how dangerous the place it is kept is. We weren't told any alignments, any classes, any races, any environment...just a question and an answer from a powerful entity and some PCs.

In my experience that kind of set up is usually a JOKE. But, since this is a gaming board one might expect to be taken seriously and have the situation flushed out more so that the respondants can get into character. But, why attack the DM--based on NO knowledge of the situation--save a question that could obviously be asked in practically any context in any situation. It just seems...rude. And I don't mean attack in the harshest sense...just the snide remarks and off-hand comments about the DMs compotence. I would like to believe that everybody has the best interests of the poster in mind...but it really doesn't seem that way...all of the time.

That's all I really mean. My examples were ludicrous extremes to prove a point--it's what isn't said that should be important in my illustration.

 

[ARandomGod]

Kill them and take their stuff.

Hrmm..

Kill them, take their stuff, and offer it to the next set of adventurers it summons as a reward. If THEY don't do it, repeat until your reward pile becomes big enough for someone to accept the offer.



I just really, really like that image.

 

[LostSoul]

Those of you who say the opening example is bad DMing: was it bad playing for the Players to have their PCs say "no" to the IPB?

No.