Melee bard minmaxing

[jasin]

I've been looking at my necropolitan bard, and where he'll be in a couple of levels, and I've noticed that it's possible to get a surprisingly large attack bonus with a bard, without using any of the stuff generally acknowledged as broken (AFAIK).

Human bard 10, 30 point buy, using stuff from Eberron, Frostburn, Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer:

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 16 (increased at 4th and 8th)

1 Brd Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm
2 Brd
3 Brd Snowflake Wardance
4 Brd
5 Brd
6 Brd Song of the Heart
7 Brd
8 Brd
9 Brd Arcane Strike
10 Brd

Include inspirational boost as one of your spells. (Bladeweave is also nice for a melee bard, but doesn't boost attack bonus as such.)

After two rounds of buffing (1: inspire greatness; 2: inspirational boost as a swift action + inspire courage, 3: wardance as a free action + attack), this guy will have an attack bonus of +21 (+9 BAB, +2 Str, +3 Cha, +4 inspire courage, +3 inspire greatness) for 1d8+6 damage, boostable up to +25 for 1d8+6+4d4 damage if he decides to use Arcane Strike, before any magic items. Pretty good for 10th level bard, no?

And he's also giving everyone else +4 to attack, damage, saves vs. charm and fear.

If you really want to push it, get a staff of divine power and Quickened divine favour and UMD it: for another round of buffing, you get a Brd10 who attacks at +30/+25/+20 for 1d8+12 (+34/+29/+24 for 1d8+12+4d4 with Arcane Strike)! Sure, at ~600 gp per charge, this is a very expensive passtime, but the visual of a bard fighting like Gandalf in the movies, sword and staff in hand, is nice... and so is the feeling of having an attack bonus over +30 at 10th level with a "weak" class!

I especially like it that this not only follows the letter of the rules (unless I missed something) but also the spirit, more-or-less: except for using the stuff from so many different books, I don't think the build uses any tricks that could be considered "unfair" or "sneaky". No cherry-picking PrCs for low level abilities, no using synergy that wasn't/couldn't be accounted for when the abilties were written, no using obviously overpowered abilities... It's just that there is a bunch of buffs and they all stack.

 

[two]

2 rounds of buffing it 1 too many

I always think any build that requies 2 rounds of buffing isn't "realistic."

1 round -- ok. You buff, move into position for the following round. Then you attack next round, ok.

2 rounds? Really tough to justify. If you don't end up getting attacked by round 2, you spend your time skulking around the back of the party. The sorcerer or wizard has already cast 2 spells, possibly 3 (if he/she has initiative), before this melee bard gets to attack once.

That ain't gonna fly.

I'd try to compress all buffing into one round if at all possible, and assume that that's all that can be managed.

Excellent ideas and conception however! I just think in "real play" 2 rounds of buffing, every combat, every time, isn't going to be very sucessful.

When I play bards I try to get a custom feat which allows inspire courage to start as a free action; thus you can inspire course + cast spell all in one round, which gives you an extra round to play with. Barring this...

 

[jasin]

I always think any build that requies 2 rounds of buffing isn't "realistic."

1 round -- ok. You buff, move into position for the following round. Then you attack next round, ok.

2 rounds? Really tough to justify. If you don't end up getting attacked by round 2, you spend your time skulking around the back of the party. The sorcerer or wizard has already cast 2 spells, possibly 3 (if he/she has initiative), before this melee bard gets to attack once.

What do you think about melee clerics? IYE, don't they usually use two rounds? Divine power + divine favour or divine power + shield of faith or divine power + righteous might? Sure, SoF or DF might be Quickened, but they also might not, and I wouldn't consider a melee cleric without Quicken an unrealistic build.

Also, consider that you actually only spend one round buffing yourself (with greatness); the round where you inspire courage is a round where you have given everyone +4 to attack and damage, which could be considered on par with greater heroism, a 6th-level spell! Even if the bard doesn't get to attack at all, the round where he inspires courage is hardly wasted. And at 12th, you get to inspire greatness in another person too...

So it's:

1st round: buff self (and perhaps a few other people).
2nd round: buff everyone.
3rd round: fight.

 

[iwatt]

What do you think about melee clerics? IYE, don't they usually use two rounds?

With time on their side, melee clerics buff. But IME, taking the time to buff for two rounds while the combat is going is a sure way of getting to do nothing.

Round 1: Buff 1
Round 2: Buff 2
Round 3: Heal the tank who has born the brunt of all the attacks while your Uber-War cleric was getting ready to dance.

As a three year player of a War cleric (Tempus) who also plays in two other campaigns with War Clerics and also DMs a War Cleric PC in his own campaign, I can tell you that "TWO's" comment is spot on. I've seen character builds that require more than a round to get going, and I've seen players insist on taking the time to buff. In the long run, this is detrimental to the party as a whole, and for the player of the "uber-buffed up creature of Doom" it's not fun. You "know" that every battle would be a cakewalk if you could get your stuff going, but if you do the battle is mostly over or someone has apyed the price.

 

[mikebr99]

I'd have to agree also... war-casters really need to invest in quickening somhow (rod or the feat, sudden or otherwise) to buff and get into combat before it's all over... or the "tank" is dead.

Mike

 

[iwatt]

I'd have to agree also... war-casters really need to invest in quickening somhow (rod or the feat, sudden or otherwise) to buff and get into combat before it's all over... or the "tank" is dead.

Mike

It's even worse when the War cleric is the Tank.

wizard: "hey, the hydra is coming at me"
cleric: "just wait one more round and that puppy is dead."

10 bite attacks later
cleric: " damn, I never get to hit anything, I always have to be healing you guys"