Melee Mage - low level spell options?

James McMurray said:
1st: True Strike
2nd: Asassin's Senses (R&R, adds 1 to threat rane and crit multiplier)
3rd: Keen Edge, Haste
4th: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin

Hm... except the Assassin's Senses, these are all on the Bladesinger's Spell list.

The only problem with the Bladesinger: You must be an elf.

But if you don't mind that, you'll have a class that fits into your concept: A warrior / wizard who uses his magic to make himself better in melee, who wears only light armor (and can later cast without armor check penalty when wearing light armor) und uses a single long sword (without anything in the other hand). Over time, you can take 10 on concentration checks to cast defensively (so you won't provoke AoO's when casting). He also gets Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace, he has Shield and Mage armor, He has Blur, Mirror IMage, Displacement, Magic Weapon (and GMW), Fire Shield)
 

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KaeYoss said:
The only problem with the Bladesinger: You must be an elf.

Or a half-elf. Don't you know we're all more inclusive in 3e :cool:? Anyway, I agree with you. The Bladesinger seems like the perfect PrC for Ciaran's character concept.
 

Consider getting 1 level in Duelist for the Int bonus to AC. I assume since you are mainly a wizard, Int would be your primary stat.

:)

And while I have not look at it myself, I have heard a lot of talk about the Arcane Trickster being a great wizard/rogue combination.
 


demon_jr said:
Consider getting 1 level in Duelist for the Int bonus to AC. I assume since you are mainly a wizard, Int would be your primary stat.

Bladesingers get that, too, but only if they use a longsword in one hand (and nothing in the other) and/or only have light (or no) armor.

For the whole bladesinger PrC, see the Tome & Blood Web Enhancement, available at the Wizards website, or directly here
They screwed it up in the book, and therefore put the real version into the Web Enhancement, which is free.

And while I have not look at it myself, I have heard a lot of talk about the Arcane Trickster being a great wizard/rogue combination.

Yea, but not exactly what he needs.
In fact, the Arcane Trickster is a Wizard with a lot of rogue skills and abilities (like sneak attack, many class skills, many skill points). He keeps the low BAB and d4 (and has AFAIK strong Ref and Will saves). Also, he can use certain skills (like open lock) from a distance x/day, and can even declare one (or more, depending on level) attack a sneak attack, and the target loses his dex bonus to AC (usually it's the other way around). He also gets one effective caster level every level. It's a good PrC, but ill-suited for a melee character as described here.
 


James McMurray said:
Would a Duelist's bonus to AC stack with the Bladesinger's bonus? If so, it might be worthwhile to get both classes.

Don't know. Could be interpreted both ways. Personally, I'd not allow it. Both abilities say "Add your Into bonus to your AC", and you don't get to add twice your bonus to anything. Also, if they'd stack we'd have a lot of smart fighters who out(armor)class the tanks.
 

Wow! There's all sorts of helpful replies here. Thanks guys! :D Now, on to the spells...

Originally posted by Hygric
Vivid Discharge from either BoEM I or II. 2nd level, surrounds you in a crakling sheath of electricity that fries the first gammy sod to hit you in mellee.
I have BoEM I, and it isn't in there, so it's probably in BoEM II. I really ought to pick that up anyway. Anyway, this looks interesting.

Originally posted by Elder-Basilisk
You'll have other troubles as well. Casting a spell with somatic components requires a free hand--something you don't have if you have a sword in each hand. I'd think about modifying the concept to a sword and armor spikes, a double sword, or forget about two weapon fighting altogether.
The character isn't supposed to be a combat caster; like Michael Moorcock's Elric and Karl Edward Wagner's Kane, he's a swordsman who's skilled in magic, but doesn't actually cast spells (much) once the swords come out. And on a related note, The DM has instituted a house rule that spells with somatic components require both hands to be free. This pretty much rules out the "sword in one hand, somatic gestures with the other" approach anyway, even were I so inclined, and so I might as well go with two weapons.

Originally posted by Elder-Basilisk
Mage Armor is only useful if you don't wear the real thing. I'd consider buying real armor and living with the spell failure. Mithril chain shirts and mithril breastplates are the best purchases in this regard.
We're starting off at 1st level, and mithril armor won't be an option for quite some time. And while it's not too bad to fumble a magic missile due to arcane spell failure, I'd really hate to blow my shield spell. Still, I suppose I can get by with normal armor if it's absolutely necessary.

Originally posted by Elder-Basilisk
Also consider True Strike which is ideal for enabling you to successfully disarm anyone and Burning Hands. Since you'll be mixing it up close and personal, the short range isn't a limitation. Protection from evil is another must have 1st level spell.
True Strike is perfect; it doesn't even have a somatic component! I'll have to put that on the top of my list of starting spells. (With a 15 INT, I can start with 5 1st level spells.)

Burning Hands explicitly requires two hands to cast even without the house rule, so it's doubly out of the question, unless I plan to pick up Quick Draw, or if I'll be dropping weapons all over the place. :-)

Protection from Evil looks like a good option as well, though it may be sub-optimal for one of my 1st level picks. It stacks well with armor, which may be its best benefit, at least until we start to run into opponents with charm effects. And as with shield, the short duration means I'll likely have to cast it when we're attacked, which is another chance for Arcane Spell Failure unless I go with Mage Armor. sigh.

Your comments on Blur and Mirror Image are very helpful; I'll still keep them in mind for the long term, as they do stack with all of the other defensive spells I might use, but in the short term I'll put stuff like Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace at the top of the priority list.

Originally posted by Darklone
Well well... Ciaran: Take a look at the spellsinger class in the KoK Players Guide.
Hmm... I hadn't considered that one. But even if the DM allowed it, it doesn't fit my conception for the character. Singing? Feh. And he isn't really all that charismatic. Giving him a high Charisma would actually mess with the concept, so any kind of Sorcerer variant is out.

Originally posted by Darklone
If you prefer to go wizard... Spellsword Pr Class.
I did consider this one. But aside from the question of whether my DM would allow it (and let's face it, it doesn't fit well with his house rule demanding two hands free for casting), it slows down my Wizard spell progression even more than it is already. I'd like to be able to cast, oh, 5th level spells someday. :)

Originally posted by maddman75
CHeck out the Book of ELdritch Might from Monte Cook. It has a series of spells that would be great for a melee mage - the marks. Each one is both a buff and attack. For instance, the Mark of Fire boosts your dex by a couple of points. But you can also 'spend it', losing the buff but doing damage to your enemy (IIRC - don't have the book right now).
Good call! I do have the original BoEM, and they are excellent choices. I simply never thought of those spells. Thanks!

Originally posted by KaeYoss
Hm... except the Assassin's Senses, these are all on the Bladesinger's Spell list.

The only problem with the Bladesinger: You must be an elf.
Even if I wanted to play an elf (and I don't), elves aren't available as a PC race in this setting. So no dice. And unlike the Spellsword, it doesn't add anything to my Wizard spell progression at all. Still and all, the Int bonus to AC is tempting. And on that note:

Originally posted by demon_jr
Consider getting 1 level in Duelist for the Int bonus to AC. I assume since you are mainly a wizard, Int would be your primary stat.
That's in Sword and Fist, right? Unfortunately, I don't have that particular splatbook. Can you give me some general info on the PrC? (I'd ask for a full detailed description, but I don't think that's entirely kosher.) An Int bonus to AC would rock, and would fit the notion of a skilled, intellectual swordsman.

Thanks, and keep those ideas coming! (please!) :D

- Eric
 
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Ciaran said:
The character isn't supposed to be a combat caster; like Michael Moorcock's Elric and Karl Edward Wagner's Kane, he's a swordsman who's skilled in magic, but doesn't actually cast spells (much) once the swords come out.

Ah. That changes much.

And on a related note, The DM has instituted a house rule that spells with somatic components require both hands to be free. This pretty much rules out the "sword in one hand, somatic gestures with the other" approach anyway, even were I so inclined, and so I might as well go with two weapons.

Don't like that at all. It seriously hampers bards, clerics, druids, warrior/spellcaster types.

And bladesingers you can forget completely.

I did consider this one. But aside from the question of whether my DM would allow it (and let's face it, it doesn't fit well with his house rule demanding two hands free for casting), it slows down my Wizard spell progression even more than it is already. I'd like to be able to cast, oh, 5th level spells someday. :)

You would take it instead alternating between wizard and fighter. so your progression would not suffer, if you intend to balance the two classes.

Even if I wanted to play an elf (and I don't),

That's OK

elves aren't available as a PC race in this setting.

Does that have a good explanation?
Personally, I'd not play in such a campaign, unless there's a very good reason to ban elves (or another PC race)

And unlike the Spellsword, it doesn't add anything to my Wizard spell progression at all.

The plan was to take the bladesinger instead of wizard or fighter levels, but you have an altogether different character concept, one where the bladesinger would not fit in. (He's combining his skills, you alternate their using)

Still and all, the Int bonus to AC is tempting. And on that note:

That's in Sword and Fist, right? Unfortunately, I don't have that particular splatbook. Can you give me some general info on the PrC? (I'd ask for a full detailed description, but I don't think that's entirely kosher.) An Int bonus to AC would rock, and would fit the notion of a skilled, intellectual swordsman.

It's in S&F, right. Some facts in Short: Fighter BAB, strong REF, something similar to Sneak Attack, gets the Int bonus ONLY WHEN WEARING NO ARMOR, and has some other stuff.
 

I disagree with an earlier poster about blur.

It is a brilliant spell for you. Verbal only component, so there is no spell failure chance. Concealment that can make any attack a miss is excellent. "Critical threat? Ooops, he missed because of the blur". You won't hear *that* very often from protection from evil! Immunity to sneak attacks! Yeah! (the obscuring mist scroll is only any good if you want to run away, since otherwise it gives *you* a miss chance too!)

Pro/Evil is a great spell because of the saving throw bonus, the protection from mind control and the hedging out summoned creatures - but for a combat-first guy, it isn't as good for you as blur.


At higher levels, the 3rd level blink is an excellent spell for you since they get a miss chance, you get sneak attack on all your attacks and you take reduced falling and area affect damage. Then I'd go for Greater Magic Weapon and Haste, eventually taking Keen edge later.

I'd imagine that Endurance should be high on your list of 2nd level spells, since you are going to need the hps to go hand-to-hand with others. Are you taking a toad familiar too :)

Still Spell is a must-have feat for you, I'd imagine! In addition, PHB verbal only spells include:

0th
Flare

1st
Feather Fall
Hold Portal
Truestrike 1st

2nd
Blindness/Deafness
Blur
Knock

4th
Dimension Door
Lesser Geas
Polymorph Self
Shout

5th
Contact Other Plane
Teleport

6th
Geas/Quest

7th
Phase Door
Power Word, Stun
Teleport without Error
Vanish

8th
Mass Charm
Otto's Irresistable Dance
Power Word, Blind

9th
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Power Word, Kill
Prismatic Sphere
Time Stop
Wail of the Banshee
Wish

Cheers
 

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