Melee, Ranged, Projectile and Thrown weapons...

[kreynolds]

If you have a Strength of 86, and you have the Throw Anything feat, is a Wagon a melee weapon that can be throw or a ranged weapon? Or, if you get a hold of a big ol' frickin' ACME rubberband, is the Wagon still a ranged weapon or is it ammunition?

 

[Antikinesis]

If you have a Strength of 86, and you have the Throw Anything feat, is a Wagon a melee weapon that can be throw or a ranged weapon? Or, if you get a hold of a big ol' frickin' ACME rubberband, is the Wagon still a ranged weapon or is it ammunition?

As already stated, the classification of a multi-purpose weapon depends upon which of the attack modes is employed.

If you club someone with a wagon, that is an improvised [edit] melee [/edit] weapon. -4 to attack.

If you throw the wagon, it's a thrown ranged weapon, as indicated by the "throw anything" feat.

If you attempt to launch the wagon with a rubberband, a trebuchet, a catapult, or a teeter-totter, it is obviously ammunition for a ranged projectile weapon. But unless you have an exotic weapon profficiency in teeter-totters (et al), I'd still assess the -4 penalty for non-proff.



-AK

 

[kreynolds]

But unless you have an exotic weapon profficiency in teeter-totters (et al), I'd still assess the -4 penalty for non-proff.

I don't know. I think after you launch 10 or 20 wagons with a teeter-totter, you should gain at least some kind of proficiency with them.

 

[Saeviomagy]

At which point you get the teeter-totter exotic weapon proficiency.

Antikinesis - a sling and a bow work off totally different princibles. A bow is about the accumulation of energy via a mechanical storage device. A sling is effectively a lever - it gives you a longer throwing arm, which is exactly what you need when you're trying to get a lot of speed into a light object.

 

[FlimFlam]

I still say that throwing a melee weapon would NOT change the weapon into a ranged weapon, althought it would be a ranged attack. So therefore, the Assassin's Death Attack would work if you threw a Dagger (a melee weapon used as a ranged attack).

 

[kreynolds]

I still say that throwing a melee weapon would NOT change the weapon into a ranged weapon, althought it would be a ranged attack. So therefore, the Assassin's Death Attack would work if you threw a Dagger (a melee weapon used as a ranged attack).

The bottom line is that Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't apply to ranged weapons, and even more importantly, Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't apply to thrown daggers, so there is definately a distinction between a thrown dagger and a dagger wielded in melee, thus the Assassin's death attack can only be made with a melee weapon wielded in melee.

 

[Antikinesis]

Antikinesis - a sling and a bow work off totally different princibles. A bow is about the accumulation of energy via a mechanical storage device. A sling is effectively a lever - it gives you a longer throwing arm, which is exactly what you need when you're trying to get a lot of speed into a light object.

Okay... I'll try this one more time...

A bow stores energy in the form of a spring.
But inertia's the thing when you're spinning a sling.
If you just fling out the bullet on the first go-round,
It doesn't go very far before hitting the ground.
A sling's not a lever... it lacks fulcrum; it's limp.
It multiplies not movement, nor force for a wimp.
It increases the radius for your angular speed,
'cause the velocity at tangent is what you need.
The faster you twirl, the more the improvement.
Inertia's the energy stored from your movement.
One-half the mass times the velocity squared
is what's going to leave your opponent impaired.
Bows and slings store energy for missiles,
but one's in the launcher, the other, the projectiles.

-AK

 

[Antikinesis]

Originally posted by kreynolds I don't know. I think after you launch 10 or 20 wagons with a teeter-totter, you should gain at least some kind of proficiency with them.

Eh... take it "House Rules", ya Off-Topic-Poster!

(Like I should be talkin'.... heh.)

-AK

 

[Antikinesis]

I still say that throwing a melee weapon would NOT change the weapon into a ranged weapon, althought it would be a ranged attack. So therefore, the Assassin's Death Attack would work if you threw a Dagger (a melee weapon used as a ranged attack).

So does that mean if an Assassin used a "ranged" weapon for a melee attack (eg, a javelin), it does NOT qualify for using Death Attack?

That's just loopy. Death Attack requires a melee weapon... it's obvious that the writer of the rule intended for it to be a melee attack. Sounds like a rules-lawyer is searching for a loophole.

-AK

 

[Spatzimaus]

That's just beautiful, AK.

I'm with the others who have said "thrown dagger is a ranged weapon, getting all the PBS-type Feats". An attack is "ranged" or "melee" depending on how you make the attack, but any weapon can be used for either with the appropriate penalties. The PHB "melee" weapons with range increments are the ones that can be thrown without penalty. Plus there's the Throwing enchantment. Likewise, I can jab with the javelin, using it as a substitute for a halfspear; it's a melee attack, using a weapon primarily intended for ranged combat.

As for whether a weapon is "thrown" or "projectile": if you're left with something in your hands afterwards, it's projectile. Whether you can add STR damage to the attack or not is a function of the individual weapon, not the type (example: shurikens and spears are throwing weapons even though they don't work the same in-game. Likewise, mighty bows and crossbows are both projectile, even though one lets you use your STR modifier.)