Melee Sorcerer advice

[RyvenCedrylle]

@themilkman

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly or missing some little rules nuance (as I am known to do) but why does it matter what implement the sorcerer uses? So long as he has an implement and the power uses the 'Implement' keyword, what's the difference? Dire Radiance, Hellish Rebuke, Guiding Strike, and Vicious Mockery all carry the 'Implement' keyword.

And I must still respectfully disagree with you on the Vicious Mockery/Guiding Strike debate. I would much rather have a foe that can't hit as well over one that's easier to hit. Why? If one side in a battle is larger than the other, it's usually (and I use this generalization with some hesitation) that the enemies outnumber the PCs. Thus a character suddenly suffering a -2 defense might not be the target of an attack this round whereas the same character is still going to attack regardless of its own to-hit penalties. Now of course if the numbers are more even or you're facing more Elites and Solos, Guiding Strike seems better since you can coordinate several PCs to exploit the weakness. I'm used to seeing minion waves like sand dunes and would like to avoid as much damage as possible, thank you very much.

 

[Asmor]

Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly or missing some little rules nuance (as I am known to do) but why does it matter what implement the sorcerer uses? So long as he has an implement and the power uses the 'Implement' keyword, what's the difference?

It's an obscure rule hidden in the first paragraph under the 'Implements' heading for sorcerers (and every other class).

When you wield a magic dagger or a magic staff, you can add its enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of sorcerer powers and sorcerer paragon path powers that have the implement keyword.

(emphasis mine)

 

[ppaladin123]

Have you considered reaper's touch?

Reaper's touch makes acid orb a melee basic attack (touch).

You can thus threaten enemies with OAs.

At 11th level you can take wild spell fury. Combined with chaos bolt you will do tons of damage to your primary target each time chaos bolt bounces.

And...if they try to run away..they provoke an opportunity attack with acid orb which triggers wild spell fury again....

 

[Asmor]

I hadn't even noticed reaper's touch. I'll have to think about that...

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

Ah! Thank you for the correction. Well that does make this more difficult doesn't it.. here's another option that is admittedly a little strange, but I use it with my star pact warlock to great effect.

Commander's Strike.

If you're going be in melee, you'll probably have friends. And they won't have problems with implement bonuses.

 

[Starfox]

Eyebite uses Warlock implements

It does, but are you sure it does not also use Sorcerer implements? The way I read it, you can use multiclass implements with multiclass powers, but there is nothing to stop you from using your own class implements (if you have any) with multiclass powers as well.

The reason multiclass feat s give access to implements is because not everyone has them already.

 

[Bolongo]

The way I read it, you can use multiclass implements with multiclass powers, but there is nothing to stop you from using your own class implements (if you have any) with multiclass powers as well.

In my game, I play it this way - but that's just because casters still have so very few feats worth taking, and gimping Multiclass implement-wise would infuriate some of my players too much.

RAW, though... well, look at Asmor's quote above. I'm afraid that Multiclassing and Dilettante by a strict reading pretty much suck for these kinds of builds.

 

[Starfox]

Ok, good to know that I'm using a house-rule then.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It's an obscure rule hidden in the first paragraph under the 'Implements' heading for sorcerers (and every other class).



(emphasis mine)

I think you are reading too much into this rule IMHO. The rule says that "Class X can add implement bonus for (whatever its implements are) to its powers" to paraphrase. That does NOT exclude the general case that an implement can add its enhancement to an implement power. Thus I don't actually see a rule that says a Wizard cannot add an implement bonus if he's using an implement power of a different class. All magic implements seem to have text which in and of itself gives them the property of adding their enhancement bonus to all implement powers cast while wielding the magic implement.

Now, maybe if we parse this all very carefully we find that a Wand Wizard cannot use his wand feature when casting a non-Wizard spell, but that isn't a huge big deal, just a slight disadvantage of using a power of a different class.

If my interpretation is valid, then it pretty much does away with all these debates about who can use what powers with which implement bonuses, etc. Granted you may have to be using a magic implement to use it with a power of a different class, but who cares? A non-magical implement offers no inherent advantages anyway in general (there are edge cases perhaps with some of the weapon/implement combos, but let us leave that for another day).

I suppose I could be proven wrong on my interpretation, but it SEEMS valid off the top of my head.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Under each implements section of every class, it states which powers they're allowed to use those implements with.

... you can add <blah> to avenger powers and avenger paragon path powers ...