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Mercurial Weapons -- good idea or bad idea?
- Thread starter Painfully
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Chun-tzu
First Post
One of the cool things you see in anime sometimes is super-weapons. A few that come to mind are a weapon from a character in Flame of Recca that had 6 different forms (like one of the 6-shot Transformers), or one from Rurouni Kenshin which was a sword with a blade so long and flexible that it was wielded like a whip.
Weapons like those might be a little too weird even for an Exotic Weapon proficiency. But I'd love to see 5-level PrCs with high pre-requisites for super-weapons with otherwise-too-good stats. It's like a level up from Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Learning to master such weapons take up so much training that they actually require levels, not just a feat, and it becomes a defining part of the character. As they increase in levels, they learn to use the weapon more effectively. For example, imagine a super-pole arm that combined features from ALL pole arms, but you need to take this PrC to master it.
A Mercurial weapon would fit great into such a class of weapons (if they existed).
Weapons like those might be a little too weird even for an Exotic Weapon proficiency. But I'd love to see 5-level PrCs with high pre-requisites for super-weapons with otherwise-too-good stats. It's like a level up from Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Learning to master such weapons take up so much training that they actually require levels, not just a feat, and it becomes a defining part of the character. As they increase in levels, they learn to use the weapon more effectively. For example, imagine a super-pole arm that combined features from ALL pole arms, but you need to take this PrC to master it.
A Mercurial weapon would fit great into such a class of weapons (if they existed).
The Souljourner
First Post
I think they're ok. Someone asked why you'd use a dwarven war axe or bastard sword if these swords existed - obviously he wasn't thinking about it very long. The mercurial greatsword is a two handed weapon, so it's not even in the same category - it's an exotic replacement for the greatsword. Spend a feat, get a better sword. Seems fine to me (post errata).
As for mercurial longsword - it has a couple contenders for the exotic replacement to longsword. I don't have the stats in front of me so I don't know them exactly, but I have a feeling the Bastard Sword, Mercurial Longsword, and Dwarven Waraxe are all approximately equal in stats.
As for useability in battle or the physics of making the weapons... it's fantasy... use your imagination.
I worry far more about balance in the game than I do realism.
-The Souljourner
As for mercurial longsword - it has a couple contenders for the exotic replacement to longsword. I don't have the stats in front of me so I don't know them exactly, but I have a feeling the Bastard Sword, Mercurial Longsword, and Dwarven Waraxe are all approximately equal in stats.
As for useability in battle or the physics of making the weapons... it's fantasy... use your imagination.
I worry far more about balance in the game than I do realism.
-The Souljourner
Acmite
First Post
kreynolds said:
Yeah, I know what the FR books say. I can't remember what it was in previous editions (my 2E books are on the other side of the continent), but some of the FR novels mention Tyr's favoured weapon being a Warhammer, and it's in his holy symbol!
It just seems odd that he uses a Warhammer to represent himself, yet chooses to wield a Longsword, you know?
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Basically they fit the exotic mold of balance. Take a marital equiv and bump up one stat 1 level. (bastard sword is long sword bumped up 1 die, same with dwarven war axe for example) In this case the thing bumped up one level is the cirt multiplier.
drnuncheon
Explorer
If it's no worse than an axe in terms of balance, then it's probably going to be no better than an axe in terms of damage. The reason the mercurial blades do more damage than a normal sword is because more mass is concentrated at the end - but if the mass is only the same as that of an axe, why would the sword magically do more damage to an opponent?
Keep your faith in Mr. Wizard, my friend - but then consider: what are the stresses involved on a sword in combat? Do you hold your blade perpendicularly while your enemy hangs weights upon it? And is a blade shaped the same as a piece of pipe? Of course not, and both of those factors are going to mean that the sword is going to act differently.
Furthermore, you may be misremembering the experiment - a hollow bar of the same weight as a solid one is stronger, but if they are the same diameter, the solid shaft is stronger (at least according to everything I've been able to look up in the past few minutes - like this entry in an MIT materials FAQ.) Could he have been comparing the rods by weight rather than size?
Ah, the old "there is no realism in fantasy" argument. Remember, though, that while the bag of holding is magic, the mercurial blades are not. That means to me that they ought to behave as one would expect them to in our world (just like any other non-magic weapon in D&D).
Besides, we're not really discussing realism. We're discussing plausibility. A bag of holding or a wand of fireballs is completely plausible given the magical system of D&D. A hollow greatsword that's as strong as a normal one, filled with mercury, and made without the aid of magic or special materials at a medieval level of technology - that's just not plausible to me. (If you wanted to talk about mercurial maces, now, I'd hear you...)
J
), while the scales represent justice.
drnuncheon
Explorer
kreynolds said:
Oh I don't know, +5 to damage and -5 to attacks as that unwieldly as hell ball fills up with mercury in mid swing? It'd be like one of those battery powered squiggly pens, ya' know?
Maybe so (I don't /think/ the water-filled bats are that much harder to hit a ball with) - but certainly more plausible in terms of construction!
J
Tetsubo
First Post
I don't disallow them because of game balance but for realism. Magic in the game is fantastic, it's suppose to be. It represents an unrealistic event in a plausable manner.
But a sword is a real thing. They have existed for thousands of years. And in all that time no one has invented a hollow sword full of a toxic metal. There is a reason for this, it wouldn't work. Let's put the issue of a shifting point of balance aside. You are swinging a narrow tube of toxic liquid.
Swords are light. I don't care if WotC says the weights for weapons represent the mass/bulk as well. They are far, far too heavy. This gives most gamers the idea that swords were/are these huge slabs of metal. A real swords does not have one gram of weight it doesn't need. Which makes them thin and fairly dynamic items. They need to have a certain amount of flex. Which means any sort of tube running down such a blade will also be thin. OK for a sword used to chop heads. But you parry one, ONE blow and it's going to fold like a broken blade of straw. If you get really luck you will be sprayed with mercury.
Lots of supplments have odd, fantastical and exotic weapons. I disallow any that violate the ability to exist in reality. If you are looking for a big sword that hits like a tank, use an axe or a maul. Heck use a military pick.
Mercurial weapons are something that could only have been designed by someone that has little knowledge of real world weapons. No insult intented. Most people know next to zero about real world weapons. They are just silly.
But a sword is a real thing. They have existed for thousands of years. And in all that time no one has invented a hollow sword full of a toxic metal. There is a reason for this, it wouldn't work. Let's put the issue of a shifting point of balance aside. You are swinging a narrow tube of toxic liquid.
Swords are light. I don't care if WotC says the weights for weapons represent the mass/bulk as well. They are far, far too heavy. This gives most gamers the idea that swords were/are these huge slabs of metal. A real swords does not have one gram of weight it doesn't need. Which makes them thin and fairly dynamic items. They need to have a certain amount of flex. Which means any sort of tube running down such a blade will also be thin. OK for a sword used to chop heads. But you parry one, ONE blow and it's going to fold like a broken blade of straw. If you get really luck you will be sprayed with mercury.
Lots of supplments have odd, fantastical and exotic weapons. I disallow any that violate the ability to exist in reality. If you are looking for a big sword that hits like a tank, use an axe or a maul. Heck use a military pick.
Mercurial weapons are something that could only have been designed by someone that has little knowledge of real world weapons. No insult intented. Most people know next to zero about real world weapons. They are just silly.
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