[Merged] Hackmaster reviews?

[BiggusGeekus]

I personally enjoy the reviews page. It's much better than RPGnet, and it's on a site I'm confortable with.

However,

This site is not some sacred cow that will be irrevocably tainted by acknowledging the presence of other games. I think you're taking the whole thing WAY too seriously.

FYI - Psion also does reviews for rpg.net. For all I know he may do them for other sites as well. And it's his job to take this seriously. That way, we don't have to.

I don't think "tainted" is the right world I think Psion had it right with "diluted"

 

[Kinevon]

But if hackmaster is included, I do not see why Fading Sun, 7th Sea, L5R, and ESD aren't included.

My return question is:

Are Fading Sun, 7th Sea, L5r or ESD d20 products or based off of AD&D?

If any of them have an answer of "Yes." then they should be included. If all of them aRE "No.", then I would have to say you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

Since any gaming product based off of either d20 or earlier versions of AD&D will be fairly similar in many ways, then these products should be considered to be of at least passing interest to a d20 gamer, since they will show alternatives that are viable, and fairly easy to implement, for their games.

Anything that is not either d20, or AD&D based, obviously does not belong on a d20 forum.

So, to continue in this vein, d20 CoC should be included, but not original Chaosium CoC. d20 SW should be included, but not WEG SW. And so forth. Although the examples given could be argued the other way as well, since the non-d20 CoC and SW product could be of use to a d20 game of the "same" genre.

HackMaster is a third generation AD&D product, similar in many ways, despite the arguments from those in both camps, to AD&D3E. Each product developed the earlier AD&D material in a slightly different direction, but they both have items of value, benefit, and utility to the "other" camp.

Just a few thoughts to ponder. For both camps.

 

[Tsyr]

For what it's worth, if the price to allow Hackmaster reviews was allowing reviews of ESDS (For whatever that's worth, given how old they are), I'd be all for it. Provided they were ESDs of DD/ADD based products.

 

[jasamcarl]

On the point of reader responsibility

Some have asserted that its the reader's perogative to research they system before purchase. But the value of this sight is that THAT WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. The d20 exclusivity of this sight provides a fixed context that communicates to the reader the basics of what to expect from any given release, notably that it will use the d20 mechanics. To remove that will either place more responsibility on the reviewer (relying on reviewers is always risky) , or force more legwork from the reader; both these factors decrease the value of the site. I agree with Psion, formality in this case is a good thing.

 

[Darkness]

For what it's worth, if the price to allow Hackmaster reviews was allowing reviews of ESDS (For whatever that's worth, given how old they are), I'd be all for it. Provided they were ESDs of DD/ADD based products.

I'm against all of these.

However...

Splitting the reviews database - or at least keeping the HM/ESD/other non-d20 stuff off the top/bottom 10 lists - might also be an idea.

 

[Darkness]

Oh, and we really don't need two threads about this. Therefore, I merged the thread in GD into this one.

 

[Default Name Player]

I'm sorry you don't find value in it. Many do. That's all the more reason you should reserve statement upon how the reviews page is handled. Just because you don't care for the reviews page does not mean you should spoil it for those who do.

You're putting words in my mouth, and your line "should reserve statement upon how the reviews page is handled" is utterly and totally unfair.

I did not say that I: "don't care for the reviews page does not mean you should spoil it for those who do". In fact, I actually do use the reviews and I in no was was putting down any of the reviews or the reviewers. What I AM saying is that the reviews section is but one of the total experience that is "EN World", and it's not the end all or be all of the site (because there's the news section, the messageboard, etc). That does not mean I am putting down the reviews section, but stating that it's part of a whole. I have no idea where you got the idea I was putting down reviews when the topic at hand is about reviews itself.

Again, I stated that it was up to Morrus in the end. Nothing I said in my post will "spoil it for those who do", because it was a matter of opinion. I am not a "mover and shaker" on this site, and hold no sway whatsoever as a lurker.

I love this site. I use the reviews. My goal is not to cause the demise of this site. However, like some of the others here - I think you're taking this WAY too seriously (or at least thats how your posts are coming across). If you want to foster a discussion, please feel free to foster one: Hell, I think you bullied poor ColonelHardisson into submission...

 

[Psion]

I have no idea where you got the idea I was putting down reviews when the topic at hand is about reviews itself.

You said "To be honest, the reviews section on this board isn' the end all/be all as it's made out to be." The implication of this is that, obviously, others feel that the reviews page is more praiseworthy than you do, elsewise how would you have come to the conclusion that it is "made out to be the end all and be all." That's something of an exagarration, I imagine, but still an indication that others praise it more highly than you think it deserves.

How else am I supposed to read that?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Hell, I think you bullied poor ColonelHardisson into submission...

I know you're kidding, but I'll address why I conceded to Psion on this issue. He knows more about the review site than I do, knows more about how it works, and probably has thought about the consequences of including HM in the reviews more than I have. I also have known him long enough to have acquired a good amount of respect for him - I simply didn't want to get into a donniebrook with him over an issue that isn't, ultimately, that important. Also, the entire issue is up to Morrus to resolve, so no amount of head-butting between me and anyone else would close the matter. I had my say - I still would like HackMaster reviews on the site - and now it's up to the guys who run the review site, and, most importantly, up to Morrus. Battling it out is kind of pointless, now that I've stated my opinion.

 

[Psion]

I was going to say... I respect the good Colonel as well, and regret that I got a little snippy with him. But I don't know that I of all people could "bully" the Colonel. If I could, the Ennies nominations would look a bit different.

But as I say earlier, we all have our 'ruthers on this. He has his and I have mine. No reason to cross blades.