D&D 5E (2014) messy's 5e newbie questions thread

[delph]

49. Is Battlemasters manouver "sweeping attack" working together with GWM to second attack? I mean if is using -5/+10 in base Attack Is dealing 1d8/10/12 + 10 dmg?

If yes, than this manouver worth to take, when I have GWM

 

[Paul Farquhar]

49. Is Battlemasters manouver "sweeping attack" working together with GWM to second attack? I mean if is using -5/+10 in base Attack Is dealing 1d8/10/12 + 10 dmg?

If yes, than this manouver worth to take, when I have GWM

Yes, they stack. The extra attack you can get from GWM uses your bonus action, whereas "Sweeping attack" is just a regular attack but with multiple targets. You could make multiple Sweeping stacks in one action with your "Extra Attack" feature.

Given that the extra target only takes damage equal to your superiority dice (so you can't attach riders to it) I would still rate it "poor" though.

 

[delph]

Yes, they stack. The extra attack you can get from GWM uses your bonus action, whereas "Sweeping attack" is just a regular attack but with multiple targets. You could make multiple Sweeping stacks in one action with your "Extra Attack" feature.

Given that the extra target only takes damage equal to your superiority dice (so you can't attach riders to it) I would still rate it "poor" though.

Last part was answer I wont. So second target get only manouver sice dmg And no +10 even I used it for main target.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Last part was answer I wont. So second target get only manouver sice dmg And no +10 even I used it for main target.

That would be my reading. And no extra sneak attack/barbarian rage/zealot etc damage for devious multiclassers.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Why have I never thought of this?!?!?! I can think of many cases where Athletics (Con) makes so much more sense than a flat Con check or save. Thank you for reminding me that, when appropriate, the modifying stat for a skill proficiency can change.

Intimidate (STR) is a commonly requested change which can make a lot of sense.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

okay. Ya know, this is one of those cases where it would have been simpler to say 'roll 1D20 and add your Dex modifier'. The problem with calling it an ability check is that it implies you can fail it... and how the heck do you fail initiative? Sure, you can lose and go last, but fail? I was picturing the DM saying, "Sorry, you failed initiative, so you can't do anything. Better luck next round."

You can get advantage and disadvantage to ability checks with different conditions.

 

[Harzel]

49. Is Battlemasters manouver "sweeping attack" working together with GWM to second attack? I mean if is using -5/+10 in base Attack Is dealing 1d8/10/12 + 10 dmg?

If yes, than this manouver worth to take, when I have GWM

Yes, they stack. The extra attack you can get from GWM uses your bonus action, whereas "Sweeping attack" is just a regular attack but with multiple targets. You could make multiple Sweeping stacks in one action with your "Extra Attack" feature.

Given that the extra target only takes damage equal to your superiority dice (so you can't attach riders to it) I would still rate it "poor" though.

Last part was answer I wont. So second target get only manouver sice dmg And no +10 even I used it for main target.

That would be my reading. And no extra sneak attack/barbarian rage/zealot etc damage for devious multiclassers.

I would infer from this Sage Advice that @Paul Farquhar's reading is probably RAI, FWIW.*

Dueling fighting style + the Sweeping Attack maneuver, does add the +2 to the damage against the second target?

D&D Sage Advice ·

www.sageadvice.eu

However, GWM introduces an additional question not raised by Dueling: if you disallow the +10 to damage against the secondary target, do you still apply the -5 to the attack roll?

Personally, I'd rule the other way, having the -5/+10 apply to the secondary attack as well (and the same for the +2 of Dueling for that matter). IMO, several considerations point in that direction.

- For me, the obvious fluff for GWM is that the character is swinging harder, but, as a result, less accurately. Removing the damage bonus from the damage to the second target, to me flies in the face of that fluff. The description for Sweeping Attack literally says that the effect on the secondary target is part of the "same attack". If that attack was made harder and less accurate, then it's harder and less accurate. Period.

- The issue of the the -5 makes both alternatives to keeping the -5/+10 suck. For the secondary target, removing the +10, but keeping the -5 just seems unfair, but removing the -5 means that after cleaving through one target your strike became somehow .... more accurate?? Blech.

- GWM's -5/+10 option is not a limited use ability. So if the strike against the secondary target had been made as a separate attack, the -5/+10 could have been applied without using any more resources. Hence, applying it to the secondary target of Sweeping Attack doesn't seem to me to be providing very much additional "leverage". In fact, it's a bit of a trade-off: if you want to use Sweeping Attack, then the -5/+10 applies to either both targets or neither, whereas if you attacked them separately you could choose to use it on one and not the other.

- Superiority Dice are a limited resource and Sweeping Attack competes for their use with the other maneuvers the BM has picked. Also, Sweeping Attack can only be used situationally. This means that the GWM/Sweeping Attack combo is unlikely to come up very often, so any argument that allowing the -5/+10 to apply is somehow OP is suspect, at best.

- I don't see any particularly good reasons to rule otherwise.

I would rule the same way for Dueling (Crawford notwithstanding) and bonus Rage damage. However, Sneak Attack and Divine Fury are specifically limited to one creature per turn, and not applying them to the secondary target is compatible with their fluff.

My 2 c.p.

* Which, in my estimation, is not much; but that's just me.

 

[Harzel]

okay. Ya know, this is one of those cases where it would have been simpler to say 'roll 1D20 and add your Dex modifier'. The problem with calling it an ability check is that it implies you can fail it... and how the heck do you fail initiative? Sure, you can lose and go last, but fail? I was picturing the DM saying, "Sorry, you failed initiative, so you can't do anything. Better luck next round."

Reading literally the section of the PH that you are implicitly referencing (Ability Checks in Ch. 7) is clearly a mistake. For example, ability check contests, specifically described in the sections on Grappling, etc., in Ch. 9 do not fall under the literal rubric in the Ability Checks section. The use of ability checks described there is just the most common case. (And the fact that it is framed in a misleading way is certainly not unique to that topic in the context of the 5e books.)

However, if one were to feel strongly that initiative must be shoe-horned into the description in the Ability Checks section, then we'll just say that the DC is 100, but everyone gets to make 'progress with a setback', with the 'setback' (delay to act) being determined by the roll. See? You just have to know how to exploit the loopholes.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would infer from this Sage Advice that @Paul Farquhar's reading is probably RAI, FWIW.*

Dueling fighting style + the Sweeping Attack maneuver, does add the +2 to the damage against the second target?

D&D Sage Advice ·

www.sageadvice.eu

However, GWM introduces an additional question not raised by Dueling: if you disallow the +10 to damage against the secondary target, do you still apply the -5 to the attack roll?

I would rule yes. The second attack uses the same attack role, including any bonuses and penalties.

Sweeping attack is, of course, so bad that no one would ever use it, and therefore the issue will never arise.

- however, what does JC mean by "an effect that increases all your damage rolls"??

 

[delph]

I would rule yes. The second attack uses the same attack role, including any bonuses and penalties.

Sweeping attack is, of course, so bad that no one would ever use it, and therefore the issue will never arise.

- however, what does JC mean by "an effect that increases all your damage rolls"??

but when you can use -5/+10 it get new dimension of use. And perfectly match with idea brutal power warrior. With one swing get down 2 enemies (ok like goblins, or wolfs)... 1d10+10 is dmg you cant ignore. And if you take green flame blade You are 2 target destroyer but it's really situational.