Meta-game knowledge of spells

[marune]

Ok, the PCs face a particular situation and the player that is playing the fighter PC suddenly says : Hey, we just need that specific spell (1 or 2 levels ahead of what the party wizard can cast) and job's done.

Immediately, the party begins to find a wizard to hire or a shop where they can buy a scroll.

How these situations could be handled by rules? The suggestion from the player could be translated in game terms: "Hey wizard, isn't there a spell that do x" ? So the wizard think for a while (Spellcraft, Knowledge(Arcana) ?) and says : Hmmm, yeah, I think a 7th level spell named Y do something like that.

Thanks for you suggestions/feedback.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I generally assume most wizards know about all the spells in the PHB. Third-party material would be a bit more iffy. Same with clerics and druids and their core spells.

For others, I think a Spellcraft, Knowledge Arcana, or Bardic Knowledge check would be apropos.

 

[marune]

I generally assume most wizards know about all the spells in the PHB.

It was my first idea, problem is that in my current campaign, it's often not the wizard/cleric that brings idea of using specific spells.

 

[Jdvn1]

I assume most PCs know about most things in the PHB.

A 1st level Fighter knows to be afraid of a spell called Fireball.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I've never had a problem with one player's ideas coming from another character's mouth.

Let's say Bob, playing the 21 Int wizard, doesn't have much of a head for figures. Carl, who is playing the 6 Int barbarian, loves mathematical puzzles.

An in-game problem arises where a door must be opened by completing a numerical sequence. Carl sees the answer instantly, but he knows that "Ooh, Throg think answer is 21!" will be out of character. Bob is completely lost.

I see some OOC conference here as helping Bob to portray Zamfar the Magnificent's dizzying intellect, despite Bob's own being less stellar. Carl explains the puzzle and its solution to Bob, and Zamfar acts upon the information.

Similarly, if Bob is playing his first ever wizard, while Carl is a long-time arcane-class player who's trying out the barbarian for some variety, it makes sense to me that Carl might occasionally remind Bob that his Spellcraft skill might give him some hints about what just happened.

It doesn't have to be Throg saying to Zamfar "Hey, you know spell what do this?" It can be Carl suggesting to Bob "There's a 5th level spell that would fit here, but we'd need to go looking - Zamfar would probably know about it."

-Hyp.

 

[AuraSeer]

It was my first idea, problem is that in my current campaign, it's often not the wizard/cleric that brings idea of using specific spells.

Yeah, that'll tend to happen. So what? Would it still bother you if the wizard's player had to remind someone about how Power Attack works?

Everybody at the table has read the PH. If the wizard's player fails to remember that make whole (or whatever) will fix the problem of the day, go ahead and let the fighter's player remind him. In character, it's still the wizard who comes up with the idea.

I have seem DMs try to forbid players from referencing any game info their characters don't know, but it never works out well. That would mean Bob (who plays the Int 6 barbarian) can't ever mention a spell by name, even if in real life he knows the list better than Wally (who plays the Int 20 wizard). So when the party needs a spell or a wizard-specific rule, Wally has to break out the reference books and spend a boring half-hour looking stuff up. The rest of the party twiddles their thumbs, and Bob gets frustrated and angry because he knows the answer and is prevented from sharing it, and all of them get annoyed at the DM for unnecessarily delaying the game.

In the end that's no fun for anybody. If Wally needs a spell, let Bob remind him which one, and get back to the action. Game sessions are too short to waste time on silly stuff like this.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That would mean Bob (who plays the Int 6 barbarian)...

Stop confusing him! Carl is playing the Int 6 barbarian. Bob's playing the wizard!

-Hyp.

 

[AuraSeer]

Stop confusing him! Carl is playing the Int 6 barbarian. Bob's playing the wizard!

-Hyp.

Nah, Carl's the cleric. There's also Fred the fighter, Pete the paladin, Wally the wizard (with his twin sister Wanda the warlock), and a bunch of others.

My example characters are like the WOTC iconics crossed with an animated childrens' show.

 

[marune]

Everybody at the table has read the PH. If the wizard's player fails to remember that make whole (or whatever) will fix the problem of the day, go ahead and let the fighter's player remind him. In character, it's still the wizard who comes up with the idea.

I have seem DMs try to forbid players from referencing any game info their characters don't know, but it never works out well. That would mean Bob (who plays the Int 6 barbarian) can't ever mention a spell by name, even if in real life he knows the list better than Wally (who plays the Int 20 wizard). So when the party needs a spell or a wizard-specific rule, Wally has to break out the reference books and spend a boring half-hour looking stuff up. The rest of the party twiddles their thumbs, and Bob gets frustrated and angry because he knows the answer and is prevented from sharing it, and all of them get annoyed at the DM for unnecessarily delaying the game.

In the end that's no fun for anybody. If Wally needs a spell, let Bob remind him which one, and get back to the action. Game sessions are too short to waste time on silly stuff like this.

Ok I buy that (For PHB a.k.a common spells).

In fact, I saw a problem in the first place, because the way the players did it. Faced with a problem, they opened the PHB and began to browse the various spells lists trying to create a combo of spells that would particulary fit the given situation.

While I accept that if the Wizard knew all the spells he could come up with the same combo, I don't like the game be paused by all this "meta-game" works.

I got the same bad feeling when the party have more than enough time to prepare for a battle (it happens from times to times, don't worry they are also often ambushed) and I have to wait for them to build a fight plan in "meta-game" terms.

 

[smootrk]

A genuis person might be able to dummy down his imagined knowledge to play a barbarian character, but the opposite is not true. It is hard for a person of Intelligence of maybe 13 (like myself) to put themselves completely into the shoes of a genius level mage (INT 18+) without some sort of allowance for on-the-spot research or help from other players out of game knowledge or experience.

To expect dummies like me to have a genius intellect while gaming is not viable. Don't let it slow the game down too much, but be tolerant and maybe even helpful. After all, the Genius Wizard probably could probably see right through your Average Intellect Plot, and Average Intellect Puzzles and Traps created for your campaign.

(not intending to be snide, but injecting a little irony to illustrate my point - don't take offense, cause it is not intended).