Metagaming

[Kestrel]

This is an email I sent to my group recently, I wanted to see if any of you had any comments on Metagaming in your games.


Metagaming= Using out of player knowledge as character knowledge or to affect a character's actions.

Sensitive subject to be sure. The reason I bring it up is that I've seen a lot of it lately and I wanted to discuss whether its a bad thing or not. Its hard to judge what a character knows and doesn't know. The rule of thumb I use is, if my character can cast, do it, or its in his class and level, then he knows about it. Even with that rule though, I find myself guilty of much metagaming, like Bonegnawer knowing the effects and power of
arcane spells. Brian knows, so its hard to pretend that Bonegnawer does not. I shouldn't comment on tactics that involve things that Bonegnawer has no conception of. He may have Spellcraft, but I think the skill is not that powerful. I would guess, in the case of Bonegnawer, its limited to knowledge of Druidic Magic and basic identification of arcane and divine
spells, not the entire PHB description of every spell in the book. Also, I should not be supplying information about another character's abilities, as that is their responsiblity, not mine. The only time you should be doing that is with new players, which none of us are.

System or Rules Knowledge doesn't bug me as much as players trying to guess the DM's intentions and then letting those guesses affect how thier character acts. This is the worst kind of metagaming to me. The character can attempt to guess the NPC's motivations and plots, but should never use
the player's knowledge of the DM to affect his character's actions.

The biggest example of this is: I am a PC, I will win in the end, because the story is about me. That demon certainly looks scary, but the DM would never put me against something I couldn't handle. CHARGE!

To quote Kenny Rogers, "You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run." The players should never feel that they will always win every situation. There are going to be those situations when they have to flee, parley, negotiate, and not just pull out
the sword and fight. That said however, the game should not be about them losing encounter after encounter either. It should be a fine balance, which will promote excitement, and the feeling of hard won rewards. I never want to feel that I survived simply because I am a PC. I would much rather have
a loved character die then feel that the DM saved me.

In the future in the games I play in, I will try not not to metagame where I can and if I see it, I will call it out and get the DM's input. Metagaming is what spoils the games for me and would like to see a lessening of it in
our Wed games.

 

[Ravellion]

well, more power to you I say! I hope you discussed it with your DM first? Although this email is well put, and uses a lot of tact in getting its message across, so I don't think there should be any trouble, and I think nothing but good will come of it.

Rav

 

[Victim]

I tend to think that metagaming is part of what makes the game fun. There are many times when a character is really annoying, or has some problems, and I wonder why my character would stick around this guy. Maybe we could find another fighter who isn't so stupid, and doesn't want to charge in w/o thought or force march everywhere. OOC, the character can be a bit annoying but is usually entertaining. It makes the game more fun.

However, I think trying to play guessing games with the DM is a pretty poor move. First of all, I don't think it's viable long run strategy - it is afterall, just your attempt to guess, and eventually it might anger the DM. However, sometimes metagaming works both ways. Sometimes the big scary demon that looks too tough is there because the DM wants you to run away. Other times, it's there for you to fight. Either way is metagaming. If my character is a paladin or other character that won't associate with evil, it's more metagaming not to attack when all the OOC clues part toward you getting stomped. If the only monsters that my character has stumbled over in his entire career are Dread Girallons (same as normal, but with a more dangerous and accurate name), then a big scary monster really isn't. "Hmm, demon." "Umm, it looks dangerous." "So did that dragon, and the 30ft tall fire elemental, remember. No one even died to those. Just avoid charging into our attack spells this time."

 

[Crothian]

This past week, 2 of the PCs meta gamed something fierce and it was really frustrating. There are times when it's okay and good like keeping the party together and promoting fun. However, othertimes it just gets in the way.

 

[Urbannen]

My favorite kind of metagaming occurs when players give each other advice during a combat when their characters normally could not communicate.

(I really mean it, I like the advice, although I usually try to ignore it.)

Our combats often seem to run like board games, not roleplaying.

 

[kengar]

My favorite kind of metagaming occurs when players give each other advice during a combat when their characters normally could not communicate.

hoo-nelly! does THAT one drive me up a tree!

It's a pet peeve of mine, I know, but when that happens too much, I start penalizing players. Usually by telling them they spent their round analyzing the other characters' actions so they lose their turn and/or their DEX bonus to AC (spaced out).

I don't do this all the time. Sometimes, there are things that a character would know that the player is just confused about; like whether one of their spells has verbal components, etc. When a player is trying to Armchair/Monday AM quarterback everything the others are doing, though, I get irritated.

 

[buzz]

It's inevitable

A certain amount of meta-gaming is inevitable. This is a GAME we're playng, after all, not an improvisational acting class (most of the time).

As far as other players offering advice, I think that a certain amount of this is acceptable. Contrary to what someone else wrote here, I think that even experienced players will forget rules from time to time, and the interaction of all the rules can be complex enough that sometimes extra input in making a decision or adjudication is helpful.

The only limit I could see is, naturally, a character acting on information they shouldn't have. If a player advises another about an ability *posessed by that player's character*, that's fine with me. Not everybody has all the spells in the PHB memorized, after all. Beyond that, however, I agree that it's simply bad form.

I think it all boils down to players who still think in terms of "winning" and "losing." A game that's played in this context, imho, encourages "cheating", i.e. meta-gaming. If the focus is on experiencing a story or milleu, then I think there's less temptation to meta-game. That way, a player won't try to second-guess the DM; they'll simply *want to see what happens next.*

 

[Desdichado]

Like buzz, I'd say a certain amount of metagaming is inherent in the game. If it becomes disruptive, it's too much. IMO, making an effort to avoid the practice is good enough -- going on a witch-hunt to eradicate any trace of it is both fruitless and frustrating.

 

[Leopold]

My favorite kind of metagaming occurs when players give each other advice during a combat when their characters normally could not communicate.

(I really mean it, I like the advice, although I usually try to ignore it.)

Our combats often seem to run like board games, not roleplaying.

i killed this ASAP. Nothing worse than having a game of RISK being played while there are minatures on the board. I let the PC's say stuff and do things ONLY on their turn. Anyone saying ANYTHING that is not rules asking or clarification "I step X feet and can cast this?" automatically loses their turn in initiative.

Metagaming sucks for all parties and makes combat take 10X longer than normal. This kills it effectively and fairly and I enforce naziesque style..

 

[Jasperak]

I like the Dex penalty to AC for metagaming in combat. Lovely.

I hate metagaming, While some is to be expected and in some cases encouraged, I hate players using abilities or knowledge that their characters would not have.

If I ever see a player use metagame knowledge, the gloves come off.