Metamagic feats-Stacking?

[LokiDR]

If the caster of the spell is a creature or an object, then the caster may lift himself with the spell.

-Tiberius

Empower is a metamagic feat. Metamagic feats may be stacked.

This is mostly a silly semantics arguement. Not being a linguist, knowing any, or how you would win this kind of arguement, I guess we just disagree.

 

[melkoriii]

You can stack Metamagic feats.

Thats the whole reason why they changed the Stat buff spells is because high lvl csters were extend, extend, empower, empowering Bull Str to get a +(1d4+1)x2 that lasted 48 hours all for a lvl 8 spell slot.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

It's not absolutely clear, so the DM can rule either way without resorting to house rules.

However, the Epic Level Handbook has a Metamagic feat that explicitly states that you have to take it more than once if you want to apply it as often. IMO, this means that it is not usual the case (in that special case it makes sence, though, since it allows you to increase the level cap for damage dice).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Go to the WotC page and check the Official FAQ-page 22. It explicitly says you can apply the same Metamagic more than once-you just add the levels up-so a Double Empowered Fireball does +100% Damage and uses a 7th level slot.

I don't believe this rule change has actually been playtested. I hope they clarifiy this, once and for all, whether this is allowed in 3.5. And I hope the answer is no - Empower Spell, for one, is written too "loosely" anyway.

Besides, why bother with empowered empowered Fireball when you have Delayed Blast Fireball (with a 4-point higher save DC)?

 

[Gideon]

I will check out the FAQ, thanks.

The reason you might need it is because you only get 2 spells every level that you get to choose as a mage(in my case) or for the sorc you might not want to spend the 7th level spell known on the delayed blast fireball. So i might have fireball but not delayed blast fireball, but still want to put out some serious damage...clerics don't have that kind of problem.


Thanks for the responses!

 

[LokiDR]

It's not absolutely clear, so the DM can rule either way without resorting to house rules.

I think it is absolutly clear, but I am not the sage.

In any event, it is rarely overpowed. Empower a fireball all day, I won't care. It is the stat buffs and other effects that had the problems.

 

[Quixon]

I don't believe this rule change has actually been playtested. I hope they clarifiy this, once and for all, whether this is allowed in 3.5. And I hope the answer is no - Empower Spell, for one, is written too "loosely" anyway.

Besides, why bother with empowered empowered Fireball when you have Delayed Blast Fireball (with a 4-point higher save DC)?

I can't say for how playtested it was but I don't think it was a rule change-it was a clarification. Metamagic was supposed to stack but wasn't spelled out clearly is what emails from the Sage and other 3.0 designers seem to say.

Gideon is correct also, if you don't have DBF you would use a Empowered, Empowered Fireball for that slot. This is in-line with the 3.5 also-they have said they want the Sorcerers to be the masters of Metamagic, and by being able to stack Meta-magic along with their spontanous casting-they will be without a doubt.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

too bad most meta magic sucks so that sorcerers are masters of suckage.

 

[melkoriii]

I can't say for how playtested it was but I don't think it was a rule change-it was a clarification. Metamagic was supposed to stack but wasn't spelled out clearly is what emails from the Sage and other 3.0 designers seem to say.

Gideon is correct also, if you don't have DBF you would use a Empowered, Empowered Fireball for that slot. This is in-line with the 3.5 also-they have said they want the Sorcerers to be the masters of Metamagic, and by being able to stack Meta-magic along with their spontanous casting-they will be without a doubt.

Correct, its not a rule change. This is how it was from the begining.

They clerified and then changed the Stat Buff spells because of the MM Feat stacking.

 

[Quixon]

too bad most meta magic sucks so that sorcerers are masters of suckage.

We found almost all Metamagic is infinetly better in the hands of a Sorcerer. Almost every sorcerer in our games takes as many Metamagic as they can-SSEE as it goes. Still and Silent usually first, followed by Extend and Empower.

A Sorcerer with Still and Silent has ALOT of freedom. Get captured, tied up, gagged or whatever-not really a problem. Nothing like being tied up and gagged but still being able to cast a Fly or Teleport to get away. Rest of the party very happy when the party sorcerer comes back to rescue them or with help. Get hit with Hold Person or get Paralyzed(though getting a save every round in 3.5 means this isn't as big as it was in 3.0) and still be able cast your spells is huge benefit. Granted not going to be able do it alot until start getting 4th-5th and higher spell slots but once you can it rocks.