Metamagic on Limited Wish

[Hypersmurf]

Trying to work out where the metamagic is fitted in when using Limited Wish to duplicate a spell.

If I wanted to use LW to duplicate an Empowered Flame Strike, for example...

Flame Strike is 4th level. Limited Wish is 7th. Empower is a +2 modifier.

Do I apply the modifier to the 7th level spell duplicating the 4th, requiring a 9th level slot?

Or do I apply the modifier to the 4th level spell, making it a 6th level spell and therefore unable to be LW'd?

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Trying to work out where the metamagic is fitted in when using Limited Wish to duplicate a spell.

If I wanted to use LW to duplicate an Empowered Flame Strike, for example...

Flame Strike is 4th level. Limited Wish is 7th. Empower is a +2 modifier.

Do I apply the modifier to the 7th level spell duplicating the 4th, requiring a 9th level slot?

Or do I apply the modifier to the 4th level spell, making it a 6th level spell and therefore unable to be LW'd?

-Hyp.

You are duplicating an empowered flame strike, as you said yourself. Empowered flame strike is 6th level, and thus you need wish, not limited wish.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Metamagic on Limited Wish

You are duplicating an empowered flame strike, as you said yourself.

Okay, rephrase. What about using an Empowered Limited Wish to duplicate a Flame Strike?

The Empower increases all variable, numeric effects of the Limited Wish by one half. Those variable, numeric effects are, in this case, Nd6 points of Flame Strike damage.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Metamagic on Limited Wish

Okay, rephrase. What about using an Empowered Limited Wish to duplicate a Flame Strike?

The Empower increases all variable, numeric effects of the Limited Wish by one half. Those variable, numeric effects are, in this case, Nd6 points of Flame Strike damage.

-Hyp.

I guess it comes down to whether you consider the duplicated spell effects to be those of the limited wish itself, or of the duplicated spell. If you don't consider limited wish to have any variable numeric effects, then empowering it wouldn't do anything. In this case, you would need to treat the empowering as applying to the spell to be duplicated.

 

['o Skoteinos]

PHB, Page 78
If she prepares charm person as a silent spell, it takes up one of her 2nd-level slots. It is still, however, only a 1st-level spell.

PHB, Page 222
A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. A limited wish can do any of the following:
-Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not from a school prohibited to you

The way is is written, you can cast a Maximized 6th level spell with limited wish, provided you can use metamagic feats on spells you duplicate with limited wish. I don't think using metamagic feats on limited wish has any effect on the duplicated spell.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hmm. It might increase the XP Cost...

 

[gfunk]

Yeah, I'm with Mustrum. Casting an Empowered Limited Wish to duplicate a spell effect that can, normally, only be duplicated with Wish means that the PC is simply bypassing the XP cost. If you are willing to pay 5K XP, then I say go for it.

 

[StealthyMark]

Because metamagicked spells are de facto spells, I'm tempted to allow using (Limited) Wish for metamagicked spells. For example, you may use Limited Wish to duplicate an Empowered Cone of Acid. No feats needed. Quite powerful for both Wizards and Sorcerers, but after all, you pay 300/5,000 XP. And of course, Miracle gets an XP component, too.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Re: Re: Metamagic on Limited Wish

Okay, rephrase. What about using an Empowered Limited Wish to duplicate a Flame Strike?

The Empower increases all variable, numeric effects of the Limited Wish by one half. Those variable, numeric effects are, in this case, Nd6 points of Flame Strike damage.

-Hyp.

I'd allow it. I think.

--Nice Spikey

 

[EOL]

I think if you're willing to cast the limited wish as a 9th level slot for the same xp cost (are those of you arguing for increased xp cost always this vindictive?) then you can duplicate the empowered flame strike. The key point (which was brought up by 'o Skoteinos) is that the actual level of the spell does not change. This is a double edged sword it hurts the player on things like saving throws and globes of invulnerability, but it helps them on things like this.