MIC - Broken?
- Thread starter MithrasRahl
- Start date
Bagpuss
Legend
Books banded by our DM, I can see why in a number of cases, I think it's a shame because there are a lot of non-broken and interesting things in it.
Originally he allowed stuff on a case by case basis, but after one session of playing with the items he'd allowed he band the whole book and recredited us the cash we had spent.
I think his problem was he was using a published adventure so none of the NPCs could benefit from items in the book without him reworking stuff.
There is power creep Hellcat Gaunlets giving an extra 1d6/spell level to some offensive spells seems a pretty big increase to me, for one example.
The 3 times a day limit is also odd, because depending on how often encounters are it can be no limit at all. For example we were playing the Red Hand of Doom campaign where encounters could be spaced out by days, so three times a day was meaningless, hence all the items seemed more powerful than they would in a dungeon environment.
Originally he allowed stuff on a case by case basis, but after one session of playing with the items he'd allowed he band the whole book and recredited us the cash we had spent.
I think his problem was he was using a published adventure so none of the NPCs could benefit from items in the book without him reworking stuff.
There is power creep Hellcat Gaunlets giving an extra 1d6/spell level to some offensive spells seems a pretty big increase to me, for one example.
The 3 times a day limit is also odd, because depending on how often encounters are it can be no limit at all. For example we were playing the Red Hand of Doom campaign where encounters could be spaced out by days, so three times a day was meaningless, hence all the items seemed more powerful than they would in a dungeon environment.
UltimaGabe
First Post
Bagpuss said:
That's a problem with the Dm or the campaign, then. In a campaign like that, Wizards most likely come out being far, far superior to Sorcerers and Warlocks, and downright ridiculous compared to Fighters and Rogues. The game is designed (and the classes, magic items, and feats by association) around having a specific number of encounters a day. That way, ridiculously powerful classes (like Wizards and Clerics) are weakened because they have to conserve their very limited resources, whereas gimped classes, like the Sorcerer and Warlock, are ONLY worth playing when resources are strapped. If you choose to run or play in a campaign where there's only one encounter a day, then you're choosing to run or play in a campaign that specifically makes one class or type of ability more powerful than others.
An item that gives a small benefit 3/day is only overpowered if you're playing in a campaign that makes it overpowered. Its limiting factor (which should always be in play, if the game is played as the DMG intends it) is that it can only be used 3 times a day, just like the Wizard's limiting factor is that it can only cast hell-raining spells a certain number of times. Take away this limitation (which campaigns like the one you're talking about do) and of course it seems overpowered. But it is by no means the fault of the item, or the book it came in, if it's used in a way other than it's intended.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
MithrasRahl said:
That's because the DMG formulas were broken for some items and they fixed them in the MIC!
I think any DM who dismisses the MIC outright is doing themselves and their players a serious disservice. They are guaranteeing a more boring game, with their players always getting the same basic set of magic items all the time. And if you doubt me, take a look at the design article about the basic items, compare those to your past adventuring parties, and I challenge you to tell me they don't match fairly well. Magic Armor, Magic Weapon, Cloak or vest of Restiance, Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, Stat boosting item(s), blah blah blah....
I consider it one of the best 3.x books that were published. If you make a very minor change to all charged items in the book, making you wear the item for 24 hours before it works for you, then almost zero items are overpowered. But they do fill a very important gap left by the core rules in magic items (namely less expensive items that are not the basic magic items that every player gets).
I suggest your DMs take a look at these design articles for the MIC and consider the issues they raise there:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070309a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070316a
Last edited:
Samnell
Explorer
Mistwell said:
I don't know about your games, but my players have never really twigged to the standard lot, except for the extremely obvious magic armor and weapons (which were common and virtually compulsory in 2e too with all the monsters immune to weapons below +1) and a stat booster for their most important stat. But I don't see that as boring. It's just intelligent play. If the PCs were real people living in a world that operates like D&D worlds do and using even half a brain cell, they'd all stand in line for those items. "This make Thug stronger? Of course Thug want! Thug not stupid!" If wizards know that improving their intelligence is going to give them more and stronger spells, every wizard in the world that has any interest in improving his magic is going to get one.
I think the only cloaks of resistance and rings of protection in my games are the stuff they pull off warm corpses. Amulets of natural armor are pretty much monk wear. But then I like the Christmas trees, and I'm well aware that I'm in a tiny minority on that front.
I don't personally think it's broken. I think there are a number of items in there that need careful thought simply because the costing system is so different from the DMG and some items look cheaper and more powerful than they are. That's not to say they're going to be. I think the MIC on the whole does a good job of getting cheaper items into a party of lower level characters, although it has a few that are just wrong compared to similar items in the DMG.
I've always liked the Loot 4 Less series from IDA for exactly this reason - it allows more variety in lower level characters in terms of permanent magical items.
Pinotage
I've always liked the Loot 4 Less series from IDA for exactly this reason - it allows more variety in lower level characters in terms of permanent magical items.
Pinotage
Rystil Arden
First Post
Interestingly, I think the MIC does a pretty bang-up job for the most part of pricing items that are similar to DMG-type items with new better prices.
The problem children occur when MIC decides to give out radically game-altering new items (free extra action items, rewind the world items, etc) with per day limits for bargain bin discount prices. For most of these items, I think the majority of games would be best served to just simply not include them at all, but if they must be included (for whatever reason), the price needs to be dramatically increased to reflect the utility. When Metamagic Quicken rods using the loosest interpretation where Wizards can apply it on the fly (thought by many to be broken) seem underpowered for their price, you know something is wrong with the world!
The problem children occur when MIC decides to give out radically game-altering new items (free extra action items, rewind the world items, etc) with per day limits for bargain bin discount prices. For most of these items, I think the majority of games would be best served to just simply not include them at all, but if they must be included (for whatever reason), the price needs to be dramatically increased to reflect the utility. When Metamagic Quicken rods using the loosest interpretation where Wizards can apply it on the fly (thought by many to be broken) seem underpowered for their price, you know something is wrong with the world!
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