MIC - Broken?

[Pinotage]

Interestingly, I think the MIC does a pretty bang-up job for the most part of pricing items that are similar to DMG-type items with new better prices.

The problem children occur when MIC decides to give out radically game-altering new items (free extra action items, rewind the world items, etc) with per day limits for bargain bin discount prices. For most of these items, I think the majority of games would be best served to just simply not include them at all, but if they must be included (for whatever reason), the price needs to be dramatically increased to reflect the utility. When Metamagic Quicken rods using the loosest interpretation where Wizards can apply it on the fly (thought by many to be broken) seem underpowered for their price, you know something is wrong with the world!

This reminds me on another thing that is prevalent in the MIC - the activation of magical items using free or swift actions. I'm ambivalent about it at the moment since I've not played with many MIC items, but it's worth mentioning that there's a big difference there to standard DMG fare.

Pinotage

 

[Rystil Arden]

This reminds me on another thing that is prevalent in the MIC - the activation of magical items using free or swift actions. I'm ambivalent about it at the moment since I've not played with many MIC items, but it's worth mentioning that there's a big difference there to standard DMG fare.

Pinotage

Agreed--that is a prerequisite to allow the extremely problematic action-granting items. And don't forget the Swift Action Rewind Amulet--all arguments about power aside, it makes the game about 10x slower (and equally less fun to play) if you have to record every change you make every single round of combat in case the bozo with the rewind amulet decides to rewind a round.

 

[Pinotage]

Agreed--that is a prerequisite to allow the extremely problematic action-granting items. And don't forget the Immediate Action Rewind Amulet--all arguments about power aside, it makes the game about 10x slower (and equally less fun to play) if you have to record every change you make every single round of combat in case the bozo with the rewind amulet decides to rewind a round.

There's a rewind amulet? As in actually rewinding time? You're kidding, right?

Uhm... Wow... Yes...

Immediate action alone can be a pain sometimes, but something like this...

Pinotage

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree with Mistwell.

IMO, the fundamental problem is the formulas are broken. Nice try. Reasonable, albeit very conservative, starting point. But they do not work.

Not only do they not work, but I am certain that if you drop half the items in the DMG into the laps of the PCs, most PCs will unceremoniously sell in order to buy something better.

What this proves is that the players believe most prices are off by a factor greater than 2, as they are willing take the implicit 50% loss from selling the item.

The MIC takes the POV that items should be priced comparably to everyone's favorite items, the Big Six --weapons, armor, Deflection bonus, Resistance bonus, Natural Armor, stat boosters.

If MIC items are priced against the Big Six, there is no significant power creep. What you have is variety while at the same power level.

 

[Rystil Arden]

There's a rewind amulet? As in actually rewinding time? You're kidding, right?

Uhm... Wow... Yes...

Immediate action alone can be a pain sometimes, but something like this...

Pinotage

It's actually a Swift action (I checked and edited), but yeah.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I like the MIC but restricted it by saying the stuff in it was not commonly made, or known about by crafters. There were limits on what was avalible, far more than DMG items (except rings - they require a 12th level caster! they should be rare!) Most items from the book were found treasure, until near the end of the campaign.

A problem I found is that they get forgotten (esp by casual gamers) The healing belt went 5 sessions w/o use, the gloves of the stars were only used the session they were found. the player with the chronocharm needed occasional reminders about its free +15' move. The summoning chronocharm was never used. It could only get worse if each person carried multiple 1-3 uses per day items. The flat bonus items work well to figure into stats and ignore.

Don't even try starting high level PCs with this book, too much rules bloat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A problem I found is that they get forgotten (esp by casual gamers).

Yeah - one of our PCs has Brute Gauntlets, and died in a combat that might have gone differently if the player remembered them. (Failed a Str check to prevent an enemy closing a door that cut the PC off from the rest of the party for a couple of rounds.)

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't know about your games, but my players have never really twigged to the standard lot, except for the extremely obvious magic armor and weapons (which were common and virtually compulsory in 2e too with all the monsters immune to weapons below +1) and a stat booster for their most important stat. But I don't see that as boring. It's just intelligent play. If the PCs were real people living in a world that operates like D&D worlds do and using even half a brain cell, they'd all stand in line for those items. "This make Thug stronger? Of course Thug want! Thug not stupid!" If wizards know that improving their intelligence is going to give them more and stronger spells, every wizard in the world that has any interest in improving his magic is going to get one.

I think you are missing the point. If your players feel that some items are no brainers for their characters, then that is the entire point of MIC...to give them some competing choices.

Again, I suggest you read those WOTC articles I just linked to. I think it will be helpful.

 

[brehobit]

I do find it kind of entertaining that WotC released the MIC, and then later released design articles talking about characters being a walking X-mas tree of magic items. Sure, this was a general problem with 3.x in general, but in this analogy the MIC is kind of like those Hallmark ornaments that light up and play music.

sigged!

 

[Thurbane]

Well, the enemies get to use the new items, too. No problem at all.

I've never been a fan of the "arms race" solution. If something that the players are doing or using is problematic to the game (magic items, feat combos et al.), the DM designing NPCs or monsters exploiting those same things rarely seems to be the best solution. In my experience, it just reeks of churlishness, and often leads to ill will between players and DM. The same is true in reverse - with players using the DMs "dirty tricks".

I've been on both ends of this (as a DM, and as a player) and I've never seen it end well. You either end up with digruntled players who get tired of the DM "stealing" their tricks, or you end up with a campaign world full of Pun Puns. I'd recommend these series of excellent, humourous stories by Roger M Wilcox, that while written for 1E/2E, are just as relevant today: http://pw1.netcom.com/~rogermw/ADnD/IPDC1.html