MIC - Broken?

[boolean]

One important point with the Hellcat Gauntlets: they only work on spells that target a single creature. This means that they don't work with "Effect: Ray" or "Effect: Orb" type spells. So they don't work with the Orb of <Foo> spells or Disintegrate.

 

[Zelc]

One important point with the Hellcat Gauntlets: they only work on spells that target a single creature. This means that they don't work with "Effect: Ray" or "Effect: Orb" type spells. So they don't work with the Orb of <Foo> spells or Disintegrate.

Rays and orbs are ranged touch attacks, and ranged touch attacks target a single creature.

Otherwise, the metapsionic feat Chain Power becomes laughably awful instead of just awful: there would be no powers it can legally affect in the XPH/SRD.

 

[Andras]

You have mistakenly equated 'affect' and 'Target'.

Chain power works on any power that affects a single target.

Hellcat Gauntlets only work with spells that have the line 'Target: Single creature' or something similar.

The metamagic feat ChainSpell also only works with Targeted spells, and doesn't work with Effect spells.

 

[chitzk0i]

Rays and orbs are ranged touch attacks, and ranged touch attacks target a single creature.

A spell is only a "targeted spell" if it has a "Target:" line. The orbs have an "Effect:" line and no "Target:" line.

 

[Stalker0]

A spell is only a "targeted spell" if it has a "Target:" line. The orbs have an "Effect:" line and no "Target:" line.

Yep, rays don't have targets for this purpose.

 

[Bagpuss]

And by the time you're casting 9th level spells, you're now wearing a 3,200 gp item that's taking up one of your very valuable item slots.

Plus, you've got to find a targeted 9th level spell that you want someone taking damage from... and, after glancing through the PHB and the SC, all I'm finding for wizards that fits the bill is Energy Drain. Could be missing something, though.

Are they underpriced? Yeah, probably. Personally, I like it better than having all my wizards going for Gloves of Dexterity, but that's my opinion.I

Heighten any other spell for the extra dice damage. Plus with the MIC, you can just stack a Dexterity bonus or some other common bonus on the gauntlets, so it doesn't take up a valuable item slot.

 

[Bagpuss]

Yep, rays don't have targets for this purpose.

No rays don't have Target: Single Creature, because it is built into the nature of how they work.

Do Rays Target - Yes
Is it a single creature - Yes

therefore they target a single creature.

QED

 

[Bagpuss]

So the gauntlets are nothing more than a 3/day - quickened magic missile or scorching ray (damage-wise) - and only for high-level casters. That eat up a body slot and function only every second round.

Even if they were then they still save you three 5th or 6th spell slot a day effectively, also they don't really take up a body slot, because with the MIC you can add Gloves of Dexterity to the Hellcat Gauntlets for a very minor increase in price.

 

[Storme]

I've never been a fan of the "arms race" solution. If something that the players are doing or using is problematic to the game (magic items, feat combos et al.), the DM designing NPCs or monsters exploiting those same things rarely seems to be the best solution. In my experience, it just reeks of churlishness, and often leads to ill will between players and DM. The same is true in reverse - with players using the DMs "dirty tricks".

I've been on both ends of this (as a DM, and as a player) and I've never seen it end well. You either end up with digruntled players who get tired of the DM "stealing" their tricks, or you end up with a campaign world full of Pun Puns. I'd recommend these series of excellent, humourous stories by Roger M Wilcox, that while written for 1E/2E, are just as relevant today: http://pw1.netcom.com/~rogermw/ADnD/IPDC1.html

Well, I have to say this is the first time I've disagreed with Thurbane...but hey...new experiences can be interesting!

Anyway, I personally am very pleased with the MIC. Having just recently returned to the game after a 30 year hiatus, I've found that the violently disporpotionaly expensive items (like the helm of underwater action...come ON...), as well as the very silly (imho) "amount of money characters should have at X levels" just do NOT match. According to the current system, a player can generally expect to have a reasonably balanced amount of gear...when he's too high level for them to do him much good. One of my concerns about the game 25 years ago was the inordinate focus on "MoreMoreMore" power. That still exists in the game but elements of the system curiously curtail that without solving it in a contradictory fashion (I'm sure this won't make sense to folk who weren't even alive back then...hehe). I think the MIC goes a LONG way toward repairing that issue.

However, one thing I'm not happy with in the book is, sure the items are priced in such a way that I can actually afford an item I can use NOW, instead of having to wait till I can afford it but no longer need it, but this has given my little Artificer, Wawepop, a little headache. We can't figure out for the life of us the formula (if any) these guys used to price most of these items. After reading the Magic Item Compendium three-part article at WotC, I'm convinced there IS no formula. That makes it a bit tough on the item creation side.

Also, have you noticed that to create an item from the Sets, one of the prerequisites is the have an item from the set. That really cracks me up on many levels .

 

[Hypersmurf]

No rays don't have Target: Single Creature, because it is built into the nature of how they work.

Do Rays Target - Yes
Is it a single creature - Yes

therefore they target a single creature.

A spell with a target requires that you can see or touch that target. A ray, as an effect, can be aimed blindly - you can cast it into darkness or fog, and if you've selected a square correctly and make your miss chance, it will still affect what it hits. A spell with Effect: Ray and a spell that targets a single creature belong to mutually exclusive sets.

You make an attack with a ray, and that attack might be aimed at a target, but it is not the target of the spell; the spell has an effect, not a target.

It's the same reason you can't put Scorching Ray into a weapon with the Spell Storing ability - it's a spell that creates an effect, not a spell that targets a creature.

See the Spell Turning spell to see this spelled out:
Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected.

Is a Scorching Ray spell aimed at you a spell that has you as a target? No, it's an spell that has an effect.

-Hyp.