MIC trumps DMG?

[amethal]

Are the tables in the Magic Item Compendium intended to amend the Dungeon Masters Guide?

I have a feeling some of the prices may have changed, but is that all?

The Circlet of Persuasion is down as a +3 non-specified bonus in MIC, but is a +3 competence bonus in the DMG.

Have they changed it, or did they forget (or just not bother) to put in the word "competence"?

I'd like to know what the general rule should be here, but amazingly the circlet query actually affects my character, who already has a competence bonus to intimidate checks from his Apprentice (martial artist) feat.

 

[sirwmholder]

I believe the rule is most recent printing is the correct one... not to say that it may need to have an errata later... my gut instinct is a lot of those errors have crept into the game since the 3.5 release. For example the Monk's AC Bonus in 3.0 was an Insight bonus the same bonus a Duelist gains from his Int mod... now both have an untyped bonus... seems more like an over sight than not, IMHO. RAW it works... weither MIC trumps DMG... depends on the DM.

Hope this helps,
William Holder

 

[Deset Gled]

I believe the rule is most recent printing is the correct one...

The rule is actually the exact opposite. The Primary Source is always correct, unless specifically altered by an errata.

The Spell Compendium had a clause that basically meant the entire book was treated as errata, so spells re-printed in it take precedence over the PHB or other sources. I don't have the MIC, so I don't know if it included such a clause as well. If it doesn't, then the DMG trumps the MIC.

Rules Quote:

Errata Rule: Primary Sources
When you find a disagreement between two D&D® rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct. One example of a
primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence when the short description in the beginning
of the spells chapter disagrees.
Another example of primary vs. secondary sources involves book and topic precedence. The Player's
Handbook, for example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for playing PC races, and for using base class descriptions. If you find something on one of those
topics from the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide or the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player's Handbook, you should assume the Player's Handbook is
the primary source. The DUNGEON MASTER's Guide is the primary source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special material construction rules, and so
on. The Monster Manual is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.

 

[James McMurray]

For example the Monk's AC Bonus in 3.0 was an Insight bonus the same bonus a Duelist gains from his Int mod... now both have an untyped bonus... seems more like an over sight than not, IMHO.

I'm not sure about the item in question, but I don't think this was an oversight. I think moving them to untyped was intentionally done to allow them to stack witho ne another and other similar class abilities.

 

[Seeten]

I imagine a lot of typed bonuses that didnt overpower things when allowed to stack, and caused magic items to never get purchased, due to their non-stacking nature, got changed to untyped so that they became viable options.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not sure about the item in question, but I don't think this was an oversight. I think moving them to untyped was intentionally done to allow them to stack witho ne another and other similar class abilities.

Umm actually I do not think that item was reprinted in MIC. The only place I recall it being mentioned is in the summary tables at the back, and those summaries are not meant to be exhaustive descriptions of the entire item.

There is a rule in the MIC that does seem to specifically change the DMG magic item pricing guidelines (the official rules for common item abilites stuff). But Circlet of Persuasion isn't one of those kinds of issues.

 

[James McMurray]

I was only referring to the mentioned change about monks and duelists.

If the item itself is never reprinted except as an entry on a table, then MIC hasn't changed it at all, merely truncated the descrption on a chart. With text vs. table inconsistencies, the text wins.

 

[glass]

My take is:

If you decide to use the various varients in the MIC, then it overrides the DMG because you are allowing it to do so by making that decission. Just like deciding to use swift actions in your game makes a quickened spell a swift action, even though that is not what the PHB says.

IOW, the supplements do not have the power to override the core rules, but you do.


glass.

 

[Mistwell]

I was only referring to the mentioned change about monks and duelists.

If the item itself is never reprinted except as an entry on a table, then MIC hasn't changed it at all, merely truncated the descrption on a chart. With text vs. table inconsistencies, the text wins.

You're right, I was more referring to this statement (which you didn't make): "The Circlet of Persuasion is down as a +3 non-specified bonus in MIC, but is a +3 competence bonus in the DMG." That's not an accurate statement, because The Circlet of Persuasion is not actually reprinted at all in the MIC. It's just listed on a table with a short description which was not meant to change the item, just remind people the general gist of what it is about.

 

[amethal]

You're right, I was more referring to this statement (which you didn't make): "The Circlet of Persuasion is down as a +3 non-specified bonus in MIC, but is a +3 competence bonus in the DMG." That's not an accurate statement, because The Circlet of Persuasion is not actually reprinted at all in the MIC. It's just listed on a table with a short description which was not meant to change the item, just remind people the general gist of what it is about.

Thanks for the reply. This is what I was getting at.

We may well have different definitions of "accurate" and "reprinted", but what the heck

As far as I am aware, none of the DMG items appeared in the MIC, except in the table. I also believe that they did intend to change them, by repricing some of them to make them more attractive.

Possibly they also intended to make them more attractive by making minor changes (for instance changing a typed bonus into an untyped bonus).

Mistwell has stated that they did not intend this. Other people think maybe they did, but no one has come up with a source.

So DMG wins.