Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

[Darrell]

Micro4E?

On the whole, though, I really think m20 has gone past the whole 3e/4e 'edition war' thing.

It's changed enough from core 3e that it's virtually a new game in itself, while keeping the good stuff from 3e/d20.

For what it's worth, since I've pretty much decided not to go the 4e route, I've got half a mind to sell off my 3e/3.5e stuff and adopt my 'Charisma-included' version of microlite20 (possibly with Satori's 'mini-magic system') as my full-time game system.

If I want, I can even print up a 'master copy' and have it hard-bound at Staples for about fifty bucks, which is a heckuva lot less than buying the core 4e books would cost me.

Regards,
Darrell

 

[Darrell]

I've been trying to get onto the microlite20 wiki to have another look at jcmadden's recent stuff, but keep getting a 'can't find the website' error message. Is the site down at the moment, or is my computer just messing with me (again)?

Regards,
Darrell

 

[kensanata]

Hosting problems, again.

 

[Dungeon Miser]

M20 Newbie Questions

Hi all, thanks a lot for M20 and all this great discussion. I'm trying to figure out the best ways to run some Dungeon Crawl Classics modules as M20, but I have a few nagging questions.

How do things work out when converting 3.5 modules like the DCCs? Do the CRs for encounters tend to work out, assuming a party of 4 PCs? Do the high Saving Throws (eg. a potential Fortitude save bonus of 7 for a 1st level fighter) give the PCs too much of an edge in anyone's experience, especially regarding mundane stuff like Disease? Thanks for any help!

 

[greywulf]

Hi all, thanks a lot for M20 and all this great discussion. I'm trying to figure out the best ways to run some Dungeon Crawl Classics modules as M20, but I have a few nagging questions.

Hi! M20 works //very// well for DCCs. I've run through a fair few without change. Onto the questions......

How do things work out when converting 3.5 modules like the DCCs? Do the CRs for encounters tend to work out, assuming a party of 4 PCs?

Just run them as-is and keep a count of the ELs. When it's time to level-up, let the players know and move on. I've not had to change the CR/ELs at all; they work just fine though YMMV. M20 characters seem to advance more quickly than their D&D counterparts, especially at lower levels, but that's mainly because the whole game experience plays more quickly. It's amazing just how much dungeon a party can clear when using a lite system.

That said, if the players are finding things too tough or too easy, just adjust ("just adjust".... ha!) on the fly.

Do the high Saving Throws (eg. a potential Fortitude save bonus of 7 for a 1st level fighter) give the PCs too much of an edge in anyone's experience, especially regarding mundane stuff like Disease? Thanks for any help!

It's not a problem at all, especially at lower levels. A STR 18 Fighter-1 would have a Phys+STR of +7 which they could use to shuck off disease and the like, just as they would a Fort save. the closest comparison would be a CON 18 Fighter-1. Without Feats he'd be at +6, though it's more likely the D&D Fighter would have CON 16 or so, and a +5 Fort save.

What that means is that the M20 Fighter is probably 10% hardier against disease than their D&D counterparts; likewise, the Rogue will be 10% better at Reflex saves and the Mage 10% better at Will saves. That's a fair price to pay for simplicity and the lack of save-boosting feats, methinks

So in short, yes, they have an edge in their most likely save, but not all that much that it;s worth worrying about.

Hope that helps!

 

[Dungeon Miser]

Greywulf, thanks a lot! That helps clear up any little doubts. I'm going to use M20 just about as-written, but I'll add in a few 3.5 things like Armor Check penalties, modifiers like Cover and Concealment, and all those great conditions that pop up so much in DCCs (like Nauseated, Confused, etc.) as-written. I don't mind adding a touch more math to such a basic system.

Good to hear DCCs work nicely with M20. They're a pretty perfect match. Then maybe I can re-run all my old Top Secret modules as M20 Modern adventures....the mind boggles!

 

[Nomad4life]

D20 Microlite became our new "official" default D&D game over the holidays. At first everyone seemed to think of the game as a "cute" novelty item worth playing once or twice to re-live 1E nostalgia. However, once things got rolling, we couldn't make ourselves stop! We made gagillians of characters just for the heck of it, and played through every adventure available for download from the M20 site. We also ran a few published 3.X adventures with little trouble. Two of the players said that they did miss some of the tactical options available to them in other versions of D&D, but the rest of us thought that the game ran much better and faster without them.

One of my favorite things about M20 was one of my favorite things about 1E- making houserules to fill in the gaps. Here are a few of our rulings that we actually kept for more than one session:

-Any character can equip any weapon or armor. However, non-fighters cannot use their class abilities while wearing armor incompatible with their class. In some situations, this is worth it. In others, it isn't.

-Rogues can make "reflex" saves to negate all damage, rather than half. (This makes the class a little more attractive.)

-Attacking an adjacent foe with a ranged weapon incurs a -4 penalty.

-There are no DR, SR, or "can only be struck by X" defenses. These slow the game down, and are already abstractly represented by hit points anyway.

-To keep things simple, monsters can have ONE special ability (a troll regenerates, a dragon has a breath attack, a medusa has stonegaze, etc…) Having a special ability adds 1 to the creature's HD for the purposes of determining experience points or treasure.

-Only player characters get extra bonus attacks for high attack scores. Monsters & NPCs make one attack per round, to speed things up.


There were many others, but they got discarded between (or during) games. Anyway, thanks for sharing Microlite and setting up a homepage. D&D would still be a fond dusty memory for us if you hadn't!

 

[Darrell]

D20 Microlite became our new "official" default D&D game over the holidays.

It's been mine for a while now. Welcome t' the club.

At first everyone seemed to think of the game as a "cute" novelty item worth playing once or twice to re-live 1E nostalgia. However, once things got rolling, we couldn't make ourselves stop! ...[SNIP]... but the rest of us thought that the game ran much better and faster without them.

My experience, as well. We find m20's speed and free-form style suit us much better than rules-heavy games.

[SNIP]

-Any character can equip any weapon or armor. However, non-fighters cannot use their class abilities while wearing armor incompatible with their class. In some situations, this is worth it. In others, it isn't.

I can see that. I rather like it.

[SNIP]

-There are no DR, SR, or "can only be struck by X" defenses. These slow the game down, and are already abstractly represented by hit points anyway.

I can see this to an extent, but I can also see a use for spell resistant critters, and things like werewolves only being hurt by silver weapons are kind of ultra-traditional. I think it'd be better to drop such things to a bare minimum, but keep 'em around for special occasions.

-To keep things simple, monsters can have ONE special ability (a troll regenerates, a dragon has a breath attack, a medusa has stonegaze, etc…) Having a special ability adds 1 to the creature's HD for the purposes of determining experience points or treasure.

I like this, too, but have some reservations. Maybe some monsters should have an additional power or two; say, breath weapon and dragonfear for dragons, or something like that.

For myself, I'm thinking about ritual magic lately. Instead of having magic item creation and high-level magic (raising the dead, communing with a deity, etc.) as 'spells,' make them ritual magic.

In order to accomplish the effect, you'd need several things:

- must gain access to the correct ritual formula (from a church or a high-level wizard)
- must purchase or obtain any necessary items or assistance (possibly including a certain number of other spellcasters, at the DM's option)
- must complete a number of successful ability checks in order to be successful in the rite (the number being determined by the DM)

For example: Enchanting a sword to a +1 bonus might require the enchantment ritual (obtained from a fellow mage), a masterwork sword, the assistance of at least one other mage, and two successful Knowledge + MIND checks.

What do you all think?

Regards,
Darrell

 

[greywulf]

I'm loving all of this. It's always great to hear how folks are using (and abusing ) M20. Grand stuff.

When I get the chance I'll add your house rules to the Macropedia. Right now I'm in the middle of creating Chariots & Champions, a fantasy Car Wars mini-game for Save Or Die, my gamerzine. Knee deep in Air Sharks and Drow Vampires, sorry

I'll be back and updating the Macropedia tomorrow. I hope!

 

[Gilladian]

Over the long weekend I ran a really fun M20 PIXIE adventure. My players were inexperienced or unfamiliar roleplayers, mostly. They were 3rd level - to simulate being pixies I gave each character a special ability (one could fly, one could turn invisible, one could prestidigitate, etc...). I had 5 players. We played for about 3 hours, and a grand time was had by all.

They escorted a magical kitten from the pixie tree to the fairy princess's wedding - on the way they met a giant eagle, a bark-bark in the village, giant rats in the garbage dump, a troll guarding the underside of the bridge, and a poison centipede on the riverbank. Eventually they made it to the fairy castle where they had to prove their wedding present was the best. Doing pixie voices for three hours nearly drove us all insane!