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Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

mediapig

First Post
I think what I will do is this:

When Converting Clerics I'll use their Wisdom, since that is their focus.

When converting Mages I'll use thier INT, for the same reason

When converting all other classes, I'll average the two.

That way, the people who really depend on Mind don't get penalised, and everyone else doesn't have unusually high Mind scores.
 

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greywulf

First Post
mediapig said:
I think what I will do is this:
When Converting Clerics I'll use their Wisdom, since that is their focus.
When converting Mages I'll use thier INT, for the same reason
When converting all other classes, I'll average the two.
That way, the people who really depend on Mind don't get penalised, and everyone else doesn't have unusually high Mind scores.

Sounds good to me.

Considering I've still to .finalize the Big Ugly pdf of Microlite20, all the rules, options, adventures and game settings due to work commitments..........

........anyone fancy working on Microlite20 4th Edition? :)

And if so, what would you change?
 

kensanata

First Post
Simplify multiple attacks.

greywulf said:
And if so, what would you change?

I think you should bury Big Shiny. Make it smaller. Make it Just Shiny.

As for 4th edition: I want to get rid of multiple attacks. Or, if not possible, have all attacks using the same attack bonus. And that is doable, I think! We're being generally a bit generous with multiple attacks (using the current attack bonus instead of the base attack bonus to determine the number of attacks) in order to simulate all the fighter bonus feats fighters no longer have. But there's wriggle room. For example:

  • Everybody just gets one attack.
  • In order to attack twice, you need to make both attacks at -2, if and only if your resulting attack bonus is at least +1.
  • In order to attack thrice, you need to make all attacks at -5, if and only if your resulting attack bonus is at least +1.
  • In order to attack four times, you need to make all attacks at -10, if and only if your resulting attack bonus is at least +1.
 

greywulf

First Post
kensanata said:
  • Everybody just gets one attack.
  • In order to attack twice, you need to make both attacks at -2, if and only if your resulting attack bonus is at least +1.
  • In order to attack thrice, you need to make all attacks at -5, if and only if your resulting attack bonus is at least +1.
  • In order to attack four times, you need to make all attacks at -10, if and only if your resulting attack bonus is at least +1.

I'm thinking of simplifying it even further, just to:

Everybody just gets one attack.

Works for me :)
 

mediapig

First Post
Talents

One thing I added to my game was a very simple Talent system, to work along with the skill system. At character creation, Humans get 5 talent points, all other races get 4.

A talent can be anything... a skill off the old SRD, a quality such as "poker face" or a new skill the player makes up, such as "seamanship."

You buy them on a 1 to 1 basis, so if I put 3 talent points into seamanship, and 2 into Poker Face, I get a +3 bonus on skill rolls involving boats, and +2 bonus to skill rolls involving bluffing at the card table. These bonuses are in additon to the skill levels involved. These would generally only apply to non combat situations, but the DM might let players use them to reduce penatlies when appropriate. For instance, 2 characters are fighting on a boat in stormy seas, with a -2 penatly. The DM might allow the character with seamnship +3 to use his talent, and eliminate the penalty.

I added this just to give a bit of variety between two characters of the same class, but still keep things really simple. I love the four skill system, and definetely don't want to lose that! But it seemed to me a fighter who is a pirate on the high seas, for instance, should have a way to be better with boats than a mountain barbarian!

Speaking of, I go back and forth on this, but what do you think of adding Barbarian & Ranger classes? Too much? I could go either way...
 


bytor4232

First Post
Hey guys! I haven't posted in a while, but I'm still using Microlite20. I wanted to drop a line about a Microlite20 experience I had this weekend.

My mother in law had to go into the hospital for a Dissected Aorta. I volunteered to keep the kids happy (my kids, nieces, and nephews, all under 10). We played a few games, then they wanted to play D&D. I always carry a set of dice and the PocketMods of Microlite20. Everyone had a great time. It really helped them to take their minds off the surgery and reasons for being up at the hospital. We rolled up the characters in about five minutes. I drew the dungeon on the fly on graph paper, and they indicated where they were. I threw in random monsters, traps, and whatnot. In the time it would have took to roll up D&D characters, we had played through about a dozen encounters.

I know I've said it before, but Microlite20 is awesome. Tonight was a prime example of where this game system just shines.
 

greywulf

First Post
mediapig said:
One thing I added to my game was a very simple Talent system, to work along with the skill system. At character creation, Humans get 5 talent points, all other races get 4.
{snip}

Interesting idea. Maybe something like Risus' cliche idea might work for this; pick a schtick, situation or trait for your character, get a +2 when it applies. Kinda like 1,001 of all the Feats out there, but genericized. 5 talent points is too many though; I'd suggest 2 at 1st level, with an extra 1 every 5th level on.

For example, a brash Barbarian type could have "Stronger when angry" to get +2 damage when he's riled, and "Brother to the Wolf" to get +2 to situations involving wolf, doggies and other canines and members of the Wolf Tribe.

A ranger-type could take "Great tracker" to get +2 tracking stuff, and "One with the arrow" to get +2 to hit with the bow.


mediapig said:
Speaking of, I go back and forth on this, but what do you think of adding Barbarian & Ranger classes? Too much? I could go either way...

Did you see what I did then? :) Didya? Didya? :)
 

greywulf

First Post
bytor4232 said:
{snip}

I know I've said it before, but Microlite20 is awesome. Tonight was a prime example of where this game system just shines.

Man, that's excellent, and //exactly// what Microlite20 is designed for.

you make me happy
 

mediapig

First Post
greywulf said:
Interesting idea. Maybe something like Risus' cliche idea might work for this; pick a schtick, situation or trait for your character, get a +2 when it applies. Kinda like 1,001 of all the Feats out there, but genericized. 5 talent points is too many though; I'd suggest 2 at 1st level, with an extra 1 every 5th level on.

For example, a brash Barbarian type could have "Stronger when angry" to get +2 damage when he's riled, and "Brother to the Wolf" to get +2 to situations involving wolf, doggies and other canines and members of the Wolf Tribe.

A ranger-type could take "Great tracker" to get +2 tracking stuff, and "One with the arrow" to get +2 to hit with the bow.




Did you see what I did then? :) Didya? Didya? :)

Yeah man, something like that! One of the things I love about the system is how simple the characters are, while staying true to their essence. I don't think it's a coincidence that the ONLY monk chracter I have ever made in my life was a Microlite20 monk. "Oh, I see, his fists are like weapons, and his armor class goes up naturally... cool!"

That's all I need. Barbarian": "He's good in the wild and get's stronger when he's angry... cool!" Save the rest of the detail for the players and role playing!
 

greywulf

First Post
Folks, I'm pleased to announce that Microlite20 made the front page of ENWorld last Friday as one of the highest replied-to threads in the forums :) Well done, guys!!

If you're a first time visitor to this thread, all hail and well met. I hope you enjoy your stay.

Rather than expecting you to wade through all these pages, here's a quick recap:

Microlite20 is a minimalist, ultra-light set of rules designed to be usable with published d20 adventures with little or no conversion. The rules are available online, as a pdf, rtf or as a PocketMod for true backpocket gaming. The Core rules contain character generation, skills, magic, combat, level advancement and a grab bag of monsters, all in 2 pages or a single web page. Cool, eh?

It's free to use, download and adapt as you see fit. I'm Greywulf, the author and (sometime benevolent) dictator. I lay claim to the 986-ish words that make up the Core. Everything else has been created by myself and all the great folks in this thread who like their games fast, freeform and simple.

There are lots of supplements, adventures and campaign settings. They're all available for download over at the Microlite20 Macropedia. There's even Microlite20 Modern there, too, and a critter generator, and an online chat/gaming tool. We got the lot.

Microlite20 is also very easy to customize - in fact, it practically aches to be personalized :) It has spawned countless variants, and lots of House Rules too, all depending on the preferred style of play. Just pick and choose as you see fit.

While Microlite20 is d20 compliant, the rules do differ from D&D in several key ways. There are just three stats (STR, DEX and MIND), though CHA is sometimes House Rule'd back into the mix. Races and classes are much simplified, and the skill system uses just four skills and a floating ability bonus mechanism. Magic is - most controversially - based off Hit Points. I like that, some don't, and that's cool. There are several variant spell systems available too.

Most obvious topics about Microlite20 have been pretty well covered in this thread already, including:

* How Microlite20 handles high-level play (in short, it does pretty well, but it's better at low-level)
* How the skills map onto D&D skills.
* Adding CHA (or WIS) back into the game. (no problem!)
* Character class balance.
* Multiple attacks per round, cleave and two-weapon fighting

If you've questions about any of these topics, please check through the thread first as it's probably been covered already. Better yet, check the Macropedia to see if there's any House Rules or discussions up there too.

I've got plans to release a compiled pdf of Microlite20 with all the House Rules, settings, etc sometime through lulu.com, but this is currently on hold until my own gaming group gets back into the mood for some Microlite20 gaming. I can only hold one system in my head at a time, it seems :)

Phew! That's a lot of posts washed over, so my apologies if I've missed anything.

Oh, and hello!
 

Deimodius

First Post
Hello, everyone. I'm a bit late to the party (by about a year) but I discovered this thread on the ENWorld home page and was instantly sucked in. Though I have not ready every single post, I have spent the last week slogging through EVERY page! It is amazing to do it, and to see how this system (and the alternates) progressed from Greywulf's first post until today.

I also noticed that this thread went like gangbusters for so long, and then suddenly fell off! What happened?

Anyway, here is my first quasi-contribution. I say "quasi" because it's not my idea, but someone else's and I haven't seen it discussed.

For having a cleric turn, why not use the alternate Turning rules from the Unearthed Arcana? They are OGL, are they not? (Although for m20 they should be modified a bit).

The Undead Turning: Level Check variant (UA pg67) has the cleric make a level check against each undead up to a certain HD limit, and within the 60' range. The cleric's level check (like a Wizards level check) is 1d20 + Cleric lvl + Cha mod. The DC to beat is 10 + Monster HD + Turn Resistance (if any) + Cha mod. A cleric can affect a number of HD worth of creatures = to Effective Cleric lvl x 3. Any affected creatures are "frozen in place for 1 round as if paralysed" (even creatures with immunity to paralysis). The cleric can concentrate each round to prolong the effect up to 10 rounds. If the creature is attacked or takes damage, the effect is broken and the creature can act normally on it's _next turn_. UA also suggests that if you use this variant, undead with turn resistance of +4 or higher should get a turn resistance increase of an extra +2.

Beating the DC by 5 or more means the cleric can choose to turn or rebuke (if evil) the undead normally (rather than just freezing them). If the creature's HD is = to 1/2 the Cleric's lvl or lower, no check is needed (it automatically succeeds), the undead is destroyed, and it still counts towards total HD worth that can be affected.

For m20, I would see it working something like this:

Turn Check = 1d20 + Clr lvl + MIND mod
DC = 10 + creature HD + Turn Resistance + MIND mod

In the interests of speeding play, the PC makes only 1 turn check roll and it is applied to all undead within range from lowest to highest HD in order until all HD that cleric can affect are used. So a lvl 1 cleric can affect a total of 3 HD worth of undead with that one check.

As above, undead with HD equal to or less than 1/2 the cleric's lvl are automatically affected and are destroyed. HD of these undead are still part of total HD that can be affected.

The cost to use this ability is a loss of HP equal to the total HD the cleric affects (or chooses to affect).

Is this simple enough for m20? Does it unbalance the classes?

EDIT: So I just read through the most recent version of the rules and see that the rule there for Turning Undead is pretty simply, and I like that it becomes easier with damage done to the creature. I believe I recall a post where someone said that would add to the tactics of it.

Shouldn't it cost something to use this ability, though, to balance with the Magi? Perhaps a number XP equal to the total HD turned?
 
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Darrell

First Post
Deimodius said:
Hello, everyone. I'm a bit late to the party (by about a year) but I discovered this thread on the ENWorld home page and was instantly sucked in. Though I have not ready every single post, I have spent the last week slogging through EVERY page! It is amazing to do it, and to see how this system (and the alternates) progressed from Greywulf's first post until today.

Better late than never! :D Welcome aboard! I haven't posted to the thread in a while myself, but was fairly active early on. Yes, the development of m20 has been incredible.

Deimodius said:
I also noticed that this thread went like gangbusters for so long, and then suddenly fell off! What happened?

Well, I can't speak for the other folk, but in my case, I put together what I consider to be 'perfect' microlite20, and have been playing it instead of posting. :)

Deimodius said:
Anyway, here is my first quasi-contribution. I say "quasi" because it's not my idea, but someone else's and I haven't seen it discussed.

For having a cleric turn, why not use the alternate Turning rules from the Unearthed Arcana? They are OGL, are they not? (Although for m20 they should be modified a bit).

Cool idea. Personally, I've taken to using an m20 version of the 'Positive Energy Burst' variant from Complete Divine. When the cleric says he's going to attempt a turn, every undead critter within 30 feet must make a "Will save" (I'm one of the 'heretics' who put Charisma back in, as well as a fifth skill called 'Personality,' so I use a Personality + CHA check for the 'Will save;' 'regulation' m20-ers could probably use Knowledge + MIND). If the critter fails the check, he takes 1d6 points of damage per the cleric's level.

Well, welcome, once again. :) Hope you enjoy playing with m20. I know I do. My group plays it more often than D&D now. :D

Regards,
Darrell
 

greywulf

First Post
Darrell said:
Better late than never! :D Welcome aboard! I haven't posted to the thread in a while myself, but was fairly active early on. Yes, the development of m20 has been incredible.

Hasn't it just? Hellol, Deimodius. A new contributor to this thread is always a pleasure.

Darrell said:
Well, I can't speak for the other folk, but in my case, I put together what I consider to be 'perfect' microlite20, and have been playing it instead of posting. :)

Same here. I ran out of things to take away :) - and that, after all, is what M20 is all about. Adding is cool too. Oh yes.

{snip}

I'm kinda snowed today, but I'll add Deimodius and Darrell's take on Turning Undead to the Macropedia tomorrow, unless some kind soul beats me to it.

Darrell said:
Well, welcome, once again. :) Hope you enjoy playing with m20. I know I do. My group plays it more often than D&D now. :D

Things like this give me a happy face. Yay!

/later.
 


Deimodius

First Post
M20 for the Palm OS

I've converted the core rules document into files that can be used on the Palm OS. The first is a .pdb (PalmDOC) file that requires a reader (there are lots of free ones) but doesn't have any nice line breaks. The second is a Word Doc (so you can open it in regular MS WORD) which can be used on the Palm OS if you have Docs-to-go by Data Viz.

You can get them on my D&D page at: http://deimodius.tripod.com/dnd/
 

Grimstaff

Explorer
Hey, Greywulf, I sent you a .pdf of the campaign setting I use for Microlite20. Its designed to be only one double-sided page, and for me has been quite playable with a lot of room for expansion.

I'm tinkering with the idea for a MicroAdventurePath. That'd be, like, 20 pages for a whole campaign, right? :p
 

Deimodius

First Post
A question re: turning. In the M20 raw it says that to turn a cleric makes a Magic Attack check against a DC equal to the HP of the undead, but _how many_ undead can the cleric affect with one check?

Perhaps it should be that the cleric makes a Magic Attach check against a DC he does not know. The DM sees the result of the cleric's roll and starts applying it as damage to Undead from closest to farthest out to 60'? So if the cleric's check totals 22, and there are 5 undead creatures with 6 HP each, the first 4 undead are destroyed, but the remaining undead creature still has 2 HP left.
 

Darrell

First Post
Deimodius said:
A question re: turning. In the M20 raw it says that to turn a cleric makes a Magic Attack check against a DC equal to the HP of the undead, but _how many_ undead can the cleric affect with one check?

That's one of the reasons I started using the variant from Complete Divine. It affects every undead creature within 30 feet, which should be fairly easy for the DM to adjudicate by looking at the map of the encounter area. If it a 30x30 foot room, all of 'em have to make a Knowledge + MIND check or take 1d6 damage/cleric's level. If it's a 50x40 room, everything beyond a certain area is unaffected. I like it 'cuz it's simple, and after all, simplicity is m20's stock-in-trade. :)

It would be fairly simple to apply a similar rule to turning in the m20 RAW. Everything in a certain area is affected, and the DM decides the DC of the Magic Attack check on the fly, based on what kind of undead are involved.

Regards,
Darrell
 
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greywulf

First Post
So much happens when I'm busy :)

Grimstaff, I've uploaded your lovely setting here. I love me some City States! Many thanks.

Al has kindly agreed to release Lands of Lyrion under the OGL license. This means that this is a seting that’s free for anyone to use, customize and personalize however they want including have as a default campaign setting for their own published adventures. That would mean fan-made adventures (including those sold on RPGNow, etc) could say “If you’re using the Lands of Lyrion, this adventure takes place just outside the City of Nythra".

This is very, very cool; more settings, adventures and fluff should be OGL. Many thanks for that!

Deimodius, I've added the link to your .pdb edition of the Core Rules to the Microlite20 Downloads page too. My Palm died many moons ago sadly :( I miss her.

As for Turning Undead, the intention is that the Cleric makes the roll and that's how many hit points worth of Undead he turns. If he rolls a 20, that might be 2 x 10hp critters, or a single 18hp beastie. That's not clear in the rules. Sorry. My bad. I'll fix on next revision.
 

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