Midnight 2nd edition
- Thread starter Taelorn76
- Start date
I picked up the Midnight 2E book, as I flipped through it at the store, and it seemed a big improvement over the first edition of the book.
For one, though I am paranoid about it since I had the experience of having two copies of the first book deteriorate, the binding seems stronger. The book feels heftier, and is printed on much better paper.
32 pages at the beginning of the book are in colour. The rest is black and white. Much better paper quality...it's more gloss, and less of that rough feel the first book had. As I mentioned, the setting feels more complete now, as well. Yes, it's still inspired by LotR, but now it's Midnight. A complete setting. It seems more internally consistent, more "grown up". The material is deeper, there's more info into the Shadow and its forces, about exactly what's going on, and how to run a game in the setting.
All the material from the 1st Ed. is included, plus most of the material from Against the Shadow (the player supplement). They've reworked the wildlander, defender, and channeler classes. The wildlander gets his abilities in tiers....so a Tier 2 ability depends on you having the Tier 1 ability it depends on etc. One of the abilities they can now choose to select is Animal Companion...but it's not a given unless you want to go that path.
Channelers have more abilities....every few levels you can choose an ability, dependent upon which path you're on (ie. hermetic, spiritual, charismatic). The spell schools have been changed...it's harder to use invocations as apparently each costs 2 spell points more than the level...so magic missile is 3 points. This makes the evoker type mage far less likely, and makes players dependent on the other magic.
There's a whole barter system in there now.
The races have all been reorganized....ie. for the elves, it shows the base elf abliities, then for each subrace, it shows the abilities they have that differ from the main elf abilities.
There is a lot of information about the Legates and the order of shadow now....subgroups, ranks, tests, all sorts of stuff.
They've got reworked rules for channeling rituals, herbs and several other things that make those systems work way better.
They've got a section that details how the various types of monsters in Midnight are affected.....so Fey, Elementals, and Outsiders all get the spirit template, becoming incorporeal. Fey can manifest their solid forms in nature areas. Outsiders are bodiless spirits trapped in the world (think of the movie Fallen), who can gain their traditional abilities by possessing other beings....be they sentient humanoid, animal, or plant. The longer they possess a form, the more that form becomes like their original shape. So, you could have a balor that is a spirit, or another balor that has the physical form, because it possessed an NPC 500 years ago, and slowly mutated his body....like in the Diablo II video game.
There are clarified rules on a lot of things aside from that.
Also, the book is reorganized. The material makes a more logical progression and is divided into different books. The first section is for players and has general world info and character creation rules etc. The later sections include magic and how it works, sections on the geography/culture/descriptions of cities etc., a section on monsters, etc.
Overall, the book is pretty worth. I haven't DMed Midnight yet, but am on the verge of starting a game, and I think the book seems pretty sweet.
My only complaint is one that is admittedly subjective....I'm not entirely a fan of all the new art in the book. But aside from that, thumbs up!
As to Crothian's question....all the material from the first book is in there, though in some places edited etc. However, they've also included most of the material (though not all the flavour text) from the Against the Shadow supplement, *and* added about 40,000 more words of brand new stuff. In addition, the book has the advantage of coming out after the "feel" and "history" of the setting have settled somewhat through the addition of new books, a vibrant fan community etc., so the entire effort feels more cohesive, if that makes any sense. Even though the first book was pretty good, this one feels more like "everything you need to run the game is in here" than the first book did.
I have some changes I'm not a fan of....like making evocations even harder to use than they are.....but that's just a personal thing. It'll likely lead to a more gritty feel to the game, players having to be smarter, and more of an eldritch feel to magic....less flash and bang, more rituals, more using divinations, subte illusions and transmutations, etc. Others, like what they've done with Outsiders, Fey etc. seem really cool, very flavourful, and easily ported into another setting.
Some material has apparently been taken out....a few of the heroic paths from the first book, though they've added in most of those from the Against the Shadow book, so it balances out.
For one, though I am paranoid about it since I had the experience of having two copies of the first book deteriorate, the binding seems stronger. The book feels heftier, and is printed on much better paper.
32 pages at the beginning of the book are in colour. The rest is black and white. Much better paper quality...it's more gloss, and less of that rough feel the first book had. As I mentioned, the setting feels more complete now, as well. Yes, it's still inspired by LotR, but now it's Midnight. A complete setting. It seems more internally consistent, more "grown up". The material is deeper, there's more info into the Shadow and its forces, about exactly what's going on, and how to run a game in the setting.
All the material from the 1st Ed. is included, plus most of the material from Against the Shadow (the player supplement). They've reworked the wildlander, defender, and channeler classes. The wildlander gets his abilities in tiers....so a Tier 2 ability depends on you having the Tier 1 ability it depends on etc. One of the abilities they can now choose to select is Animal Companion...but it's not a given unless you want to go that path.
Channelers have more abilities....every few levels you can choose an ability, dependent upon which path you're on (ie. hermetic, spiritual, charismatic). The spell schools have been changed...it's harder to use invocations as apparently each costs 2 spell points more than the level...so magic missile is 3 points. This makes the evoker type mage far less likely, and makes players dependent on the other magic.
There's a whole barter system in there now.
The races have all been reorganized....ie. for the elves, it shows the base elf abliities, then for each subrace, it shows the abilities they have that differ from the main elf abilities.
There is a lot of information about the Legates and the order of shadow now....subgroups, ranks, tests, all sorts of stuff.
They've got reworked rules for channeling rituals, herbs and several other things that make those systems work way better.
They've got a section that details how the various types of monsters in Midnight are affected.....so Fey, Elementals, and Outsiders all get the spirit template, becoming incorporeal. Fey can manifest their solid forms in nature areas. Outsiders are bodiless spirits trapped in the world (think of the movie Fallen), who can gain their traditional abilities by possessing other beings....be they sentient humanoid, animal, or plant. The longer they possess a form, the more that form becomes like their original shape. So, you could have a balor that is a spirit, or another balor that has the physical form, because it possessed an NPC 500 years ago, and slowly mutated his body....like in the Diablo II video game.
There are clarified rules on a lot of things aside from that.
Also, the book is reorganized. The material makes a more logical progression and is divided into different books. The first section is for players and has general world info and character creation rules etc. The later sections include magic and how it works, sections on the geography/culture/descriptions of cities etc., a section on monsters, etc.
Overall, the book is pretty worth. I haven't DMed Midnight yet, but am on the verge of starting a game, and I think the book seems pretty sweet.
My only complaint is one that is admittedly subjective....I'm not entirely a fan of all the new art in the book. But aside from that, thumbs up!
As to Crothian's question....all the material from the first book is in there, though in some places edited etc. However, they've also included most of the material (though not all the flavour text) from the Against the Shadow supplement, *and* added about 40,000 more words of brand new stuff. In addition, the book has the advantage of coming out after the "feel" and "history" of the setting have settled somewhat through the addition of new books, a vibrant fan community etc., so the entire effort feels more cohesive, if that makes any sense. Even though the first book was pretty good, this one feels more like "everything you need to run the game is in here" than the first book did.
I have some changes I'm not a fan of....like making evocations even harder to use than they are.....but that's just a personal thing. It'll likely lead to a more gritty feel to the game, players having to be smarter, and more of an eldritch feel to magic....less flash and bang, more rituals, more using divinations, subte illusions and transmutations, etc. Others, like what they've done with Outsiders, Fey etc. seem really cool, very flavourful, and easily ported into another setting.
Some material has apparently been taken out....a few of the heroic paths from the first book, though they've added in most of those from the Against the Shadow book, so it balances out.
Prince of Happiness
First Post
Wow! I've never checked out Midnight, but if Banshee16's review is any indication, this sounds dead awesome. I love how they have outsiders in this setting. Just...dead cool!
Yep, I hadn't yet gotten around to reading my first edition midnight I found used a couple months back (missing the map but I didn't know until later it was supposed to come with one).
After reading similar reviews I zipped on over to eBay and found a 2nd edition copy with a reasonable "Buy it Now!" cost.
(Can you tell I hate paying current retail prices?)
It's on its way and I'm really looking forward to thumbing through it!
After reading similar reviews I zipped on over to eBay and found a 2nd edition copy with a reasonable "Buy it Now!" cost.
(Can you tell I hate paying current retail prices?)
It's on its way and I'm really looking forward to thumbing through it!
TDRandall said:
The only map that 1st ed. came with was a double page spread in the colour section at the front of the book. There was no large size, fold out map, or anything like that, if that's what you were expecting.
That map can be downloaded from the FFG website, incidentally. A large fold-out version was included in Fury of Shadow (the boxed supplement).
The maps in 2nd ed. are more detailed, however. (Not a lot more detailed, unfortunately, but any improvement is better than nothing.)
How strange.
Yes, I definitely thought there had to be a large pull out map that a pristine condition book would probably have gummed into the front of the book.
Some of the reviews/discussion earlier that had convinced me to hunt this down (just before V2 was announced, incidentally - had I held on just one or two more weeks.....) had talked up the detail and quality of the full color map so much that I couldn't envision much else.
I'm hopeful that the book will show up today. I can't wait to at least thumb through it for "WOW" factor, if not truly and slowly savor each morsel of goodness in it.
Yes, I definitely thought there had to be a large pull out map that a pristine condition book would probably have gummed into the front of the book.
Some of the reviews/discussion earlier that had convinced me to hunt this down (just before V2 was announced, incidentally - had I held on just one or two more weeks.....) had talked up the detail and quality of the full color map so much that I couldn't envision much else.
I'm hopeful that the book will show up today. I can't wait to at least thumb through it for "WOW" factor, if not truly and slowly savor each morsel of goodness in it.
TDRandall said:
Well, the v.1 hardcover didn't have a pull out map. There was a full 2-page spread map, but it was printed across pages that you wouldn't want to pull out of the book
The only fold-out map that I know of for Midnight came in the boxed set "Fury of Shadow" which was really cool. Also had a DM's screen and a big sourcebook, among other things. It's a tad pricy, but the info inside is very good.The map in the v.2 hardcover is, again, not a pull-out. It's more stylized. Looks "older", not quite as photo-like. I really love the v.2 hardcover. It's quite well done. Deals with so many more things.....like having charts so that you can properly figure out the worth of different items, and how easy it is to get particular types of weapons in certain areas of the continent....ie. in Shadow-dominated Erenland, weapons cost like 3x normal, because they're contraband, whereas they're easier to buy if you make it to the elven nations, because they're still free (though under crushing attack).
Extra heroic domains, better rules for channeling, details about changes to monsters in the Midnight game.....ie. hill giants are, I think, the main type of giant left. The more intelligent, good aligned ones like cloud and storm giants are all dead or corrupted. And the remaining ones are demented....more like thse shaggy beasts from Tad Williams' "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn". I haven't used giants in 3E before. but using them more like in the novels was interesting in one of my last games. One grappled the monk, picked him up in one hand, and then started beating him to a pulp by repeatedly smashing him (held by his feet in a big, meaty paw) against the side of a ruined tower.
The book is also a lot more robust than the 1st Ed. version. It has a much stronger binding, and the paper is better quality.
Banshee
TDRandall said:
Um. I can only assume that those reviewers didn't have a lot of experience with high-quality gaming maps. The Midnight maps are serviceable and reasonably attractive in their own right, but they are certainly not detailed in any practical sense.
Although, to be honest, the maps from Hârn have spoiled me for life on large-scale maps for RPGs. Everything else comes off second-best, at best, in comparison. :\
