Midnight: My players wonder--What's the point?

[Tom Cashel]

Midnight is kind of like life. We're all going to die--so what's the point?

Hopefully each of you--and each character--has their own answer.

 

[Desdichado]

I don't think Dawnforge comes out until later this month, or early next month. However, Morningstar which seems similar (at least from 10,000 ft) by Goodman Games just came out -- I browsed a copy at my FLGS today. Those settings are about the Golden Age of Heroes, rather than the Dark Age of the Demon God, as Midnight kinda is.

 

[Theron]

For me, the attraction is that the nature of heroism -- real, classical, heroism, isn't about success. It isn't about living happily ever after. It's not about killing it and taking its stuff. It's about fighting on against all odds. The 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Horatius at the bridge. David vs. Goliath (OK, Dave won, but let's face it, things looked pretty grim until it turned out the deck was stacked in his favor).

I remember, years ago, reading a book on Japanese cinema and the "cult of noble failure", how failing tragically in the service of a noble cause carries a great deal of emotional and mythic resonance in many cultures.

The few against many, not for treasure, not for power, but simply to do what is right. That's what Midnight is about to me. Heroism.

 

[Derulbaskul]

My players also asked the same sorts of questions after I first drew their attention to the Midnight setting and the intro on the FFG website... and they refused point blank to play!

Anyway, we then sat down together and I explained my intention to run a very SW-like campaign (and I have been putting the plot together based on outlines from Josph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces- ie, the basic metaplot for the Star Wars and even Matrix movies). I have told them that the primary theme is hope, but I haven't told them of the hidden theme: redemption. Two of the Night Kings can be redeemed, and I hope over 20+ levels that they will be.

I also plan to alternate Midnight with a more traditional FR game, although I will be guided by the players' desires for any particular sessions.

Cheers
D

 

[Nifelhein]

Well, I seem to be one that has a particular view of Midnight... Buttercup, the option to use the setting or not goes by a basic premise: what kind of game do you like.

I like rare magic, what Midnight is, it is not low, magic is strong, when it exist, the elves depend on it, being a spellcaster is a great accomplishment unto itself.

I like heroic characters, not magical versions of inspector gadget (no offense to those who like the one aluded here).

I like a hard fight and not sublt fights that are contained in a world of power and good is the normal.

Midnight, as I seem to have felt from the book, is not that no hope setting, it doesn't say the shadow cannot be defeated, at least until know I haven't read those words. Midnight is a world of heroes and resistance, a world where the enemy is behind every corner.

My campaign will surely not gonna be to kill a god or end the veil that keeps the gods away from mortals, it will be a campaign based on the same premise of Star Wars, the world is sinking into a dominion of evil and shadows, and that is what the book says, at least i got that way, than heroes rise, for it is when there is no chance that true heroes rise.

My players are gonna know exactly what the game is gonna be and how the setting is, but so far they have read the preview and other info at FFG and are very excited, I see Midnight as this:

Midnight is about being a hero, for no one else can, it is about giving hope to the despaired, it is helping those that don't trust you, it is about making heroes out of nothing.

Midnight is my setting of choice, it is epic and i want them to feel it, defeating the shadow or beating the orcs back to their god may not be a choice, that epends on you, i keep it open, the world was mine at the very moment they finished writing and i started imagining, they can do anything, just as we can, but ho hard is that will depend on what they want to do and how that is gonna be done, the setting is about responsability, being careful and selfless, for those are the wualities of heroes.

A Midnight hero is more than just a dungeon delver, he is a survivor and a resistance fighter, for if he believes what the shadow wants (that the world is conquered for ever) he will give what anyone can have that is the most precious thing we can ever have: dreams, dreams of a better world...

Sorry for the many typos, mistakes, errors and the long post... Midnight is great and I like it a lot, but I have never seen it as a no-hope setting or a no-win setting...

Great things are hard to achieve...

 

[hong]

I think a lot of people who are saying Midnight is bleak and hopeless aren't really getting the point. A hero is someone who stands against the odds, for what he knows is right, and is willing to pay the price for his beliefs and actions. Standard D&D characters aren't heroes- they are looting thugs who often have the backing of good-aligned churches/governments/etc behind them for support.

Naughty Gothmog! No biscuit! -hong

 

[Henry]

Just a brief reminder, ladies and Gentlemen, that courtesy is the catgut of the Harmony Guitar.

And while everyone ponders that, I'll go take some more medication and lay back down...

 

[Elf Witch]

Since my group has been talking about playing a midnight game I have been reading a lot of forums on it. At first I felt ugg why would I want to play this game real life can be bad enough. But the more I read the more hope I saw in the setting and the chance to be a real hero. I played in a homebrew game for two years that had elemnts of darkness in it and was low magic it was the best game I ever played when we accomplished something it felt really heroic because we did it without a ton of magic items.

I can see a problem with the setting though. How the game is is going to be depend on the type of DM running it. I would not play this setting with a DM who is bloodthirsty and competitive with the players all the cards are in his hands and the deck is stacked against you the player.

 

[Wombat]

For me, the attraction is that the nature of heroism -- real, classical, heroism, isn't about success. It isn't about living happily ever after. It's not about killing it and taking its stuff. It's about fighting on against all odds. The 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Horatius at the bridge. David vs. Goliath (OK, Dave won, but let's face it, things looked pretty grim until it turned out the deck was stacked in his favor).

I remember, years ago, reading a book on Japanese cinema and the "cult of noble failure", how failing tragically in the service of a noble cause carries a great deal of emotional and mythic resonance in many cultures.

The few against many, not for treasure, not for power, but simply to do what is right. That's what Midnight is about to me. Heroism.

These comparisons sound good but ultimately don't apply. In each case, there is either a chance for victory or else the sacrifice allows for victory elsewhere. Yes, the Spartans die, but in doing so they allow the other Greeks time to rally so they can ultimately defeat the Persians. Yes, Horatius dies, but again allowing Romans to rally in safety to ultimately bring victory. And David had a promise from the Lord (see the Testament supplement to see a game version of this). Even the Tale of the Forty-Seven Ronin, which ends in the death of all the ex-samurai brings about a positive conclusion by ridding the world of the evil minister of protocol.

Midnight, conversely, is about a land given over to doom. The Dark Lord has won. The other gods are distant and utterly unable to help. Any victory achieved will be necessarily short-lived. In other words the good guys have lost and the best they can do is live another day. This is a world given over, utterly and irredeemably, to evil, with an evil deity in charge of the whole show.

Now I run games where it is 101% absolutey impossible to kill a god (unless you are a god yourself, but that is another matter). Sure, you might take down an avatar if you are something like 40th level, but beyond that, forget it. Midnight seems to also take this tack. Given that situation, why are the "heroes" even bothering to fight? Not only can they not defeat the BBEG, they cannot make the world around them any better. Given the resources at hand for both sides, the best that the "heroes" can do is scrabble around trying not to be killed, possibly taking out a few henchmen, but ultimately dying having served no greater purpose. Hope? What hope is there in a world totally cut off from the other gods.

Like I said, this sounds like a campaign of CoC that starts after Big C has risen from R'lyeh.

The world is doomed and the best you can do is live.

 

[Theron]

Like I said, this sounds like a campaign of CoC that starts after Big C has risen from R'lyeh.

The world is doomed and the best you can do is live.

Clearly, we each want something else from our games. Fair enough, it's all good. For me, the journey is more important than the destination. And like someone else mentioned, who's to say it's hopeless. After all, the Big Bad is only one for three so far against the forces of good, and he still hasn't managed a flawless victory.

And why does victory over the darkness have to be the only objective? To paraphrase Cyrano de Bergerac, a man doesn't always fight for victory.

Ultimately, it either works for you or it doesn't. If it doesn't, no amount of prozelytizing on my part is going to change your mind, and no amount of naysaying on yours is going to change mine.