WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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Ay ay ay. Your claim that WotC intended a meaningful distinction between "book" and "product":
there was more than one post on this, you quoted my opinion, not a statement of fact
Let me know if you have anything to support your ‘conclusion’ or whether all you have is (justified) uncertainty of mine, because if it is the latter we at best disagree about probabilities
As to understanding me correctly, my theory is that WotC intentionally used the term product rather than book to hide the fact that the new PHB did not outsell Tasha’s when it comes to book sales. If they had been able to (also) claim it is the best selling book they would have done so.
If you rather have them use the two terms interchangeably and accidentally put product in the press release be my guest, I don’t think it is probable but we have no solid evidence either way
 

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No, but what was described was not just someone telling a story. There are dice, rules, different players, different levels of success, and more. It meets the definition of game.

I mean, there are dictionaries and it's a word with a definition.


That's true, but you are wrong to do so as it meets the definition for game.

There are a lot of definitions there, but as long as you are enjoying your activity, great. I'm not looking to fight over it.
 


They did so! They said exactly that. I reproduced the quote earlier in this thread, in a response to one of your posts:
yeah, at a later point / their Q4 statement, I acknowledged that already. That changes nothing about what they did in the press release or why.

Of course the 2024 PHB will eventually be / is by now the fastest selling D&D book, that was unavoidable. The question is whether it was right from the start, or whether Tasha's sold faster but could not keep the momentum, so after a while the PHB pulled ahead. I assume it is the latter given WotC's public statements.
 
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yeah, at a later point / their Q4 statement, I acknowledged that already. That changes nothing about what they did in the press release or why.

Of course the 2024 PHB will eventually be / is by now the fastest selling D&D book, that weas unavoidable. The question is whether it was right from the start, or whether Tasha's sold faster, but could not keep the momentum, so after a while the PHB pulled ahead. I assume it is the latter given WotC's public statements.

Yup. I'm expecting a more traditional release myself. Gangbusters near launch, then decent year 1 then decline.

That opinion could be wrong.

I do notice elsewhere online you can't assume 5.5 when talking about 5E. 5.0 still dominates going by tag numbers.

Not much discussion about 5.5 in private Facebook groups I'm in. And once again can't assume 5.5. Some people still want to buy 2014 phb as that's what DM is running.

Prices are down on 5.0 adventures and similar books. Tashas, Xanathars, PHB steady or slightly cheaper ymmv of course.
 

It's the stuff happening as dictated by the outcome of the rules/dice rolls/etc. that generates the story.
Is waiting for the game notes to be "published" as it were what makes it a story?

I'm absolutely not saying that anyone is wrong for disagreeing with me that the playing of the game is a story. I just don't understand the sentiment. It often comes off as semantic distinction.
For me, telling the story afterward, written down or not, is what makes it a story. Like science. Until you write it down (or relate it via oral tradition) you're just messing around.
 


yeah, at a later point / their Q4 statement, I acknowledged that already. That changes nothing about what they did in the press release or why.

Of course the 2024 PHB will eventually be / is by now the fastest selling D&D book, that was unavoidable. The question is whether it was right from the start, or whether Tasha's sold faster but could not keep the momentum, so after a while the PHB pulled ahead. I assume it is the latter given WotC's public statements.
I got to be honest, you are giving whoever wrote that way too much credit for being clever: it seems more likely that they were just using the word "product" because the PHB is a product, rather than it being a 17 dimensional chess move to convince Forumites the book sold well.

Besides which, we already know your theory doesn't hold water, because the PHB sales after a month or ao were compared to the first full 3 years of the 2014 PHB...which means it has overall outsold Tasha's, even of Tasha's had a quick initial burst of sales.
 



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