D&D 5E (2024) Mike Mearls explains why your boss monsters die too easily

[Crimson Longinus]

Yep. Several times they've been running on cantrip fumes before they get to rest.

Only because they spend all their spell slots for sending and goofing around.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, this right here is the crux of it.

It’s not that players are trying to cheese the five-minute workday (5MWD). It’s that the 5MWD has basically become the default, simply because most groups don’t run dungeon crawls or long adventuring days very often.

If players start forcing rests in ways that don’t make sense in the world, that’s something a DM can handle with in-game consequences. But the bigger issue is that the dominant 5e playstyle, influenced by shows like Critical Role, is very narrative-focused. You usually get one or two major fights before it makes sense in the story to rest. Those “6 to 8 encounters per long rest” guidelines from the DMG are the exception, not the rule.

That’s where things start to break down. If you follow the DMG encounter guidelines as a new DM, you’ll quickly notice that “deadly” doesn’t really mean deadly for a fully rested party. You often need to double or even triple up on encounters to make things feel like a real challenge.

On top of that, only having one combat between full resource refreshes removes a lot of the tactical and strategic depth that comes from managing resources. With just one fight per day, there’s no real consequence to burning everything, because you’ll get it all back. The only feedback loop left is “are we winning, losing, or dead?” If you misjudge the difficulty or roll badly, you’re done, because there’s no chance to adjust or adapt over time.

When you have multiple encounters between long rests, you get gradual feedback. If the first fight hits harder than expected and the second leaves the party barely standing, now they have choices. Do we push on and risk it, or fall back and rest while the enemies regroup? That layer of tension and decision-making doesn’t exist in the one-fight-per-day setup.

To really fix this, whether you want one big cinematic fight or a full six-to-eight encounter day, the resting system needs to adapt to both styles of play.

And that’s not hard to do.

Just make long rests restore only a fraction of resources, somewhere between 0% and 30%, depending on conditions. Did they have a good campsite and real sleep, or did they crash in the mud during a storm? Let that matter.

Now resources deplete over multiple days, and wilderness exploration actually means something again. Casting Goodberry or Create Food and Water becomes a real choice, not just a “might as well, I’ve got spell slots left” action at the end of the day.

A fully rested party can still handle six to eight encounters in a single day, but that same resource pool can also stretch across ten encounters over ten days, depending on how they manage it.

Gradual resource regeneration, like in my Gradual Gritty Realism Rest Rules, literally fixes all the problems mentioned in this thread.

But the question is...is there really a problem for most tables, or for WotC...?

 

[M_Natas]

But the question is...is there really a problem for most tables, or for WotC...?

I think it is a problem on enough tables that it leads to constant discussion in forums such as these here and it is definitley a problem for Newbie-DMs.
Like, I did something crazy, when I started playing and DMing D&D - I read all of the PHB and the DMG (2014 version) and then used those to create adventures! Followed the adventure day exactly. So and so many XP between Long Rests. Planned the adventures around it.

And it actually worked.

But I also watched Critical Role and when I created a bigger campaign, I run into all the issues discussed here, because when I used longer form adventures with less battles between long rests, the DMG didn't give me any help. Deadly (because deadly was never explained, what it actually means) didn't feel deadly. But I also didn't had a clue on how much more deadly I can make encounters without just outright killing the party. So for a whole year my encounters felt underpowered and I started to throw crazier and crazier encounter on the party - killing thousands of zombies at level 4 (by killing the Pseudoliches leading that Zombiearmy) or stopping an Invasion of a city which used a Kraken as an amphibian at Level 6 (to be fair, they recruited the Child-Wizards from the City-Magic-Academy to fire a lot of fireballs at the kraken, but that also killed the Kids).
But I also was way to generous with Magic Items and giving them a Pet Dragon ...

My current spelljammer campaign is way better in that regard, because now I know what I'm doing and can fix all the things and problems, WotC ignored or didn't like to explain in its DMG. I also used variant rests (only long resting in a safe habour and gradual ressource regeneration, also training for Level Ups, using XP again instead of milestones, not so much rail roading, knowing what I can throw at the party at full power ...)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Did you ever fill out a survey for 5E?

I got oitvoted on encounters and iirc I wrote about dex to damage as a bad idea.

Lost interest in D&D mid 3e, looked briefly at 4e and bounced off, and was was completely unaware of anything D&D until I was reintroduced to 5e a couple of years in.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But I also watched Critical Role and when I created a bigger campaign, I run into all the issues discussed here, because when I used longer form adventures with less battles between long rests, the DMG didn't give me any help. Deadly (because deadly was never explained, what it actually means) didn't feel deadly. But I also didn't had a clue on how much more deadly I can make encounters without just outright killing the party. So for a whole year my encounters felt underpowered and I started to throw crazier and crazier encounter on the party

Yeah, I feel you. I had very similar experience. After the party of four fifth level characters cleared an encounter that was about CR 14,* I realised that the CR is a joke and "deadly" means nothing. There was also a few dragons (that were boosted) which I meant to be really tough fights but ended up being cakewalks. So I have just been throwing all sort of crazy stuff on them completely disregarding the guidelines. But I am just eyeballing stuff as there is no guidelines for whether quadruple or sextuple deadly actually is too much.

(* it was not meant to be a combat encounter, but the PCs started a fight against people with overwhelming power and numbers. I though it was suicide. It was not.)

 

[Staffan]

But I also watched Critical Role and when I created a bigger campaign, I run into all the issues discussed here, because when I used longer form adventures with less battles between long rests, the DMG didn't give me any help. Deadly (because deadly was never explained, what it actually means) didn't feel deadly.

It could explain things better, but there is actually a definition in the 5.0 DMG:
Deadly. A deadly encounter could be lethal for one or more player characters. Survival often requires good tactics and quick thinking, and the party risks defeat.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It could explain things better, but there is actually a definition in the 5.0 DMG:
Deadly. A deadly encounter could be lethal for one or more player characters. Survival often requires good tactics and quick thinking, and the party risks defeat.

Yeah, but that's a lie though. You need to go at least double, probably triple deadly to get that. Normal deadly is at most what they say medium is: A medium encounter usually has one or two scary moments for the players, but the characters should emerge victorious with no casualties. One or more of them might need to use healing resources.

In 5.0 the encounter difficulty classification basically stop at where they ought to start from so they are completely useless.

 

[M_Natas]

It could explain things better, but there is actually a definition in the 5.0 DMG:
Deadly. A deadly encounter could be lethal for one or more player characters. Survival often requires good tactics and quick thinking, and the party risks defeat.

Yeah, but only of the deadly fight is the 7th fight in day. If it is the first fight after a long rest, deadly is easy.

 

[GrimCo]

Classification is misleading. It should be measured against 5 person party (or 4 person, if that's standard, but that should be written) with all resources and full HP. Most of encounters i ran are in deadly or above category, but most player deaths occur more due to sheer bad lack on their part and good luck on my part or if i design encounter specifically to target their weaknesses. Just regular deadly encounters in blank rooms get steamrolled often.

 

[SkidAce]

That's the critical problem with how 5e did its rests. Spending 3+ hours a day doing nothing, but you never ever see consequences for it, while taking the rest of the day, guaranteed problems? Really?? It's just so patently ridiculous.

Do events ever cause interruptions of a short rest in your games?