Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[Yaarel]

@SteelDragons

Traditionally:

PHYSICAL = Strength, Dexterity, Constitution
MENTAL = Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma

These abilities seem problematic enough.

Heh, the clearer we can distinguish them, the less arguments future D&D players will have.



I can see how the ‘nosebleed’ trope for psionics might appeal to others. Personally, it appeals less to me. Maybe there is an option to use a different mechanic for it?

It occurs to me, the psionic Overchannel feat, also the Wilder class with its ‘Wild Surge’ feature, are perfect candidates for a mechanic to represent the nosebleed trope.



@FuindorDM

I agree, ‘psychometabolism’ (transmutation) causes bodily stress, can interact with the Constitution ability, and flavor-wise psychometabolists tend to be healthy as horses. They dont lift weights, nor do endurance training, but they psionically enhance their muscles to get buffed, and habitually endure physical stress.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Perhaps the simplest solution is make the power dictate the manifesting stat. Psychometabolic powers depend on Con, telepathic ones rely on Int, Psychoperceptive abilities rely on Wis, or some such.

...but I still think a Fatigue mechanic models very well the way pistons are commonly limited in the fiction.

 

[Remathilis]

Perhaps the simplest solution is make the power dictate the manifesting stat. Psychometabolic powers depend on Con, telepathic ones rely on Int, Psychoperceptive abilities rely on Wis, or some such.

...but I still think a Fatigue mechanic models very well the way pistons are commonly limited in the fiction.

3.0 tried that. It made the original psion MAD and lead to some weird moments (like "The frost giant flexes, make a Will save").

3.5 returned stat by manifester than discipline.

 

[Remathilis]

Yep.

Nope, but powers using spell-slots is fine.

Nope, sorry. You fail at reading comprehension.

You aren't the only one who I'm referring to. Go back to page 30 and start reading Tony, Yaarel, and Hussar's posts. We'll wait until you catch up.

 

[Yaarel]

4e has the design format that a class has one ability. Then each archetype within the class has its own second ability.

Often the second ability adds a benefit to a power in the form of a ‘rider’.

The format of two abilities works well for ensuring both commonality of the overall class, plus distinctiveness of each archetype within the class.

Can this work for the Psion class?

 

[Mercule]

What distinguishes this from a philosophy cleric?

Only one of them is playable in my campaign. If you want to play a cleric, step 1 is "select a deity or pantheon". There are no exceptions to that in any game I run. Animists are druids. People who manifest powers by force of will and/or meditative training are psions.

Yes, it's arbitrary.

 

[Nifft]

I like them, at least as starting points. A pretty significant point, though: sorcerers aren't dependent on an ancestor in 5e - draconic is perhaps based on ancestry, but wild magic might "just happen" and being a favored soul is like something a god does to you. Sorcery in 5e is innate to you, but it just comes from your "magical origin."

Well, if you demand that every new class gets a unique story, then I'm going to counter-demand that every existing class has a coherent story. We can innovate around stable restrictions, but it's pretty much impossible to innovate around "LOL I DUNNO".

A psion, in this comparison, wouldn't have a magical origin - they'd have some sort of awakening or vision that allowed them to access psionics.

I really like that. Even the "divine" classes don't milk that story of "sudden revelation" well and it fits nicely with the semi-Buddhist 3e fluff pretty nicely. The closest is the Favored Soul, but even that is more about a god than about your own realization of the world.

Heh. Honestly I could fluff a bunch of classes from an origin of "divine revelation". Like, an Angel of the Lord comes down and takes you back-stage for whatever reason. Your reaction determines your class.
- "Woah, I didn't realize how great God was." -> Cleric
- "I asked the Angel for a kiss." -> Favored Soul
- "I noticed some interesting things when we transitioned between the spheres. I bet I can figure out the technique for doing that." -> Wizard
- "The Angel showed me, and I understood." -> Psion
(etc.)

I also like it because it's distinctly medieval in flavor, just not European-medieval, which means we don't have to traffic in the science-y terms. We can loot the language of Buddhism and yoga and Himalayan spiritualism and that creates a place for psionics in the campaign world. And you can still work in bits of Far Realm or crystals or pulpy science stuff at the edges if you wanted to.

The crystal stuff can work exactly like a Wizard's staff or whatever -- tools which you use for the same reason every tool-user uses tools, but which aren't inherently magical except that you put magic into them.

I'd groove on a psion that was pseudo-Tibetan in flavor with a skill-based roll-to-activate powers system that had points that you could spend to ramp up or sustain a given power.

Yuck. Roll-to-activate means everything has SR, and SR is painful.

IMHO the way to go is 3.5e Augmentation mechanics, except with spell slots instead of power points, and with a bunch of decent cantrip-level effects.

What distinguishes this from a philosophy cleric?

Worship.

An Ardent saw the power of philosophy and tried to comprehend it.

A Cleric saw the power of philosophy and got down on his knees.

You aren't the only one who I'm referring to. Go back to page 30

It took you until page 54 to answer people from page 30, none of whom seem to be talking to you right now.

That's ... special. Thanks for sharing.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, if you demand that every new class gets a unique story, then I'm going to counter-demand that every existing class has a coherent story. We can innovate around stable restrictions, but it's pretty much impossible to innovate around "LOL I DUNNO".

I think the sorcerer story is pretty coherent - magical origin is distinct from "I learn how to do magic" (wizards) or "I steal magic from otherworldly creatures" (warlock) or "Gods give me magic" (cleric) or "My conviction gives me magic" (paladin).

Yuck. Roll-to-activate means everything has SR, and SR is painful.

IMHO the way to go is 3.5e Augmentation mechanics, except with spell slots instead of power points, and with a bunch of decent cantrip-level effects.

Sounds a bit like a perhaps-niche use of metamagic, and then we're kind of back to sorcerer subclass territory.

Not that I'd have a problem with that, but a lot of folks would.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

3.0 tried that. It made the original psion MAD and lead to some weird moments (like "The frost giant flexes, make a Will save").

3.5 returned stat by manifester than discipline.

More accurately, 3Ed made your amount of PSP dependent on your Con. A Fatigue mechanic is different.

 

[Nifft]

I think the sorcerer story is pretty coherent

Okay, can you say what it is then? I thought it was having an ancestor, but you say that's wrong, and all I'm seeing by way of explanation is "not like other classes".

Sounds a bit like a perhaps-niche use of metamagic, and then we're kind of back to sorcerer subclass territory.

Perhaps I miscommunicated.

All the major 5e spellcasters use spell-slots like a 3.5e Psion used augmentation.

Psions can do the same, because augmentation was originally a Psionic thing.

It's not specifically like Metamagic.