Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[lkj]

Nope. All good. IIRC, the play test doc said "it ties to the Far Realm". It gave some setting-specific flavors, in a later paragraph, that seemed a bit out of place with the Far Realms. Really, my objection is that they seem to want to tie it to a particular piece of fluff. I can definitely see where the Far Realms would be one way for a mind to be awakened -- Eberron pretty much does this, and I'm fine with the Eberron implementation.

Over the years, I've seen little "throw away" bits of fluff turn into major themes. For example, when 3E was first released, the Sorcerer had a line to the effect of "no one is sure where their power comes from, but one rumor is that they have a dragon in their ancestry." My table didn't really care for the whole birthright thing (we actually use psionics for that sort of thing), so we just played it as a different way of studying magic -- one with focus on skill rather than knowledge, trading flexibility at preparation time for flexibility at casting time. It worked beautifully throughout 3E, especially for those of us who hated playing Wizards because of the need for a player with a crystal ball. Feats and prestige classes drifted a bit towards canonizing the birthright fluff, but it was "easy to ignore".

In 5E, the Sorcerer can't have the birthright aspect stripped out. The class would simply fall apart. What's more, the new preparation system makes the original mechanical appeal of the Sorcerer a bit redundant. Based on that and the multiple bloodlines, I'm not exactly weeping about the change to the Sorcerer. Still, it's an example of how even a single line of fluff can end up dominating something. I do not want to see the 6E (or whatever) Mystic end up tied to the Far Realm in the same way the Sorcerer ended up tied to bloodlines.


I don't mind the idea generator. In fact, I think that's been one of D&D's historic strengths. When the designers/developers latch on to one idea too strongly, though, the result is that flavor that should be set at the group/table/campaign level is passed down with too heavy of a hand.

If 5E has a singular weakness, it would be (IMO) that the team pushes concepts just a bit too far. They go from idea generator or example to soft-canon. They've done an amazing job with the mechanics, but they're ham-fisted with the IP.

Probably worth putting up the text from the last playtest (I assume this is cool since it's only a small part of freely available playtest material but someone can let me know if not):


Not every D&D world features psionic power to the same extent. Psionics indirectly originates from the Far Realm, a dimension outside the bounds of the known multiverse. The Far Realm has its own alien laws of physics and magic. When its influence extends to a world, the Far Realm invariably spawns horrific monsters and madness as it bends reality to its own rules. As the laws of reality twist and turn, individual minds can be awakened to the cosmic underpinnings that dictate the form and nature of reality. The tumult caused by the Far Realm creates echoes that can disturb and awaken minds that would otherwise slumber. Such awakened creatures look on the world in the same way that
creatures existing in three dimensions might look on a two-dimensional realm. They see possibilities, options, and connections that are unfathomable to those with a more limited view of reality. In worlds that are relatively stable and hew close to the archetypal D&D setting presented in the core rulebooks, psionics is rare—or might not exist at all. The cosmic bindings that define the multiverse are strong in such places, making it unlikely that an individual mind can perceive the possibilities offered by psionics. Mystics in such worlds might be so scarce that a mystic never meets another practitioner of the psionic arts. Characters might unlock their psionic potential by random chance, and ancient tomes, journals, and other accounts of mystics might serve as the only guide to mastering this form of power. Psionics is more common in worlds where the bounds of reality have been twisted and warped. The realm of Athas in the Dark Sun campaign setting is the prime example of a world where psionics is common. The gods are absent, magic has been twisted into an ecological scourge, and the common threads that bind many worlds of D&D have been sundered. By contrast, the world of Eberron is a setting where the bounds of reality have been tested but not fully broken. Psionics is not as pervasive in Eberron as in Athas, but the influence of the otherworldly realm of Xoriat makes it a known and studied art.

They definitely lead with a connection to the Far Realm. And I'd prefer they didn't do that. But even there they use the word 'indirect'. On top of that later paragraphs definitely suggest that the Far Realm connection is incidental and that psionic origins would likely vary by world. I don't see a Far REalm connection in any of those other examples.

In other words, I think all the elements are there for fluff that most people can be happy with. In fact, if they just took the Far Realm stuff and just inserted it into the later paragraph as another example of how psionics occurs, I'd be perfectly happy with it.

I understand what you say about bits of lore getting carried forward. Presumably, if the main fluff keeps it open then future iterations might hit up the Far REalm-- psionic connection. But probably not in a restrictive way. Anyway, a bit of psionics lore makes the Far Realms more interesting to me.

Cheers,

AD

 

[Yaarel]

Consciousness is mysterious. Connect psionic flavor to the weirdness of the conscious observer and quantum mechanics. But use Medieval-esque terminology.

Consciousness, soul, light, the fifth element of ether, brain, force, mind, outofbody, scry, push, move, fate, mindforce, lifeforce, soulforce, aura, the spirit of a person, to spirit something, and so on.


In Medieval Jewish mysticism, the human soul has five levels:

• Singularity (Ykhida) - divine self, divine spark, infinity (En Sof), source of the capacity of free will, deeply ‘hidden’
• Vitality (Khaya) - cosmic self, transpersonal, selfless, interconnectedness of all living beings and of all things in existence
• Consciousness (Neshama) - eternal self, altruistic ideal, better version of oneself, hidden but intuited and glimpsed
• Spirit (Ruakh) - spirit of a person, inner life, emotional ideals, intellect, self-identity, human life, language, learning, influence of spirit
• Lifeforce (Nefesh) - animal soul, vitality of body, appetites, sensations, fight-flight, bodily aura (equivalent to Ki/Chi)

The above descriptions are a rough simplification intended for gaming purposes. ‘Hidden’ means it is beyond the limits of the mind to objectify, contain, and define. Yet it is an aspect of being a mind.

The highest three levels are transcendent, beyond the limitations of space-time. Every human has all five levels. Internally, each soul originates from the divine infinity beyond space-time. But externally, in terms of behavior and appearance, most humans live from the lowest perspective of the animalistic lifeforce. It requires study, effort, and community to express the higher aspects of ones soul, in concrete ways, by means of real actions, in the physical world. These actions make a better world, illuminate the world, and elevate the world to function at higher levels of the soul.


Flavorwise, psionics seems more focused on the level of the personal ‘spirit’ of each person, including language, learning, emotional ideals and intellectual ideals. It is the spirit of a person that can assess and harness the animalistic impulses with the bodily aura, and that can self-identify with the eternal and miraculous aspects of the transcendent levels of consciousness.

 

[Mercule]

They definitely lead with a connection to the Far Realm. And I'd prefer they didn't do that. But even there they use the word 'indirect'. On top of that later paragraphs definitely suggest that the Far Realm connection is incidental and that psionic origins would likely vary by world. I don't see a Far REalm connection in any of those other examples.

In other words, I think all the elements are there for fluff that most people can be happy with. In fact, if they just took the Far Realm stuff and just inserted it into the later paragraph as another example of how psionics occurs, I'd be perfectly happy with it.

I understand what you say about bits of lore getting carried forward. Presumably, if the main fluff keeps it open then future iterations might hit up the Far REalm-- psionic connection. But probably not in a restrictive way. Anyway, a bit of psionics lore makes the Far Realms more interesting to me.

Agreed on all points. I just don't see any advantage to that overarching connection to the Far Realm. There actually is an advantage to just letting it be somewhat vague, though: the history of psionics has made it a moving target and some of the source material doesn't actually allow for the Far Realm. Dark Sun is a perfect example where it's more an X-Men style mutation.

The line about "Psionics is more common in worlds where the bounds of reality have been twisted and warped" is very telling of how they got to the Far Realm being the origin of psionics. It's as if they can't separate a fraying of reality from Cthulhu. The truth is that a Dark Sun psionic healer has no more to do with Lovecraft than Kevin Costner's gills in Waterworld.

They could just as easily have started with "In worlds that are relatively stable...." and included the Far Realms as just one more example. I can even see where the Far Realm being an origin for psionics is compelling enough to warrant a special sidebar that contains the ideas at the top of the paragraph, and maybe a few more.

 

[lkj]

Agreed on all points. I just don't see any advantage to that overarching connection to the Far Realm. There actually is an advantage to just letting it be somewhat vague, though: the history of psionics has made it a moving target and some of the source material doesn't actually allow for the Far Realm. Dark Sun is a perfect example where it's more an X-Men style mutation.

The line about "Psionics is more common in worlds where the bounds of reality have been twisted and warped" is very telling of how they got to the Far Realm being the origin of psionics. It's as if they can't separate a fraying of reality from Cthulhu. The truth is that a Dark Sun psionic healer has no more to do with Lovecraft than Kevin Costner's gills in Waterworld.

They could just as easily have started with "In worlds that are relatively stable...." and included the Far Realms as just one more example. I can even see where the Far Realm being an origin for psionics is compelling enough to warrant a special sidebar that contains the ideas at the top of the paragraph, and maybe a few more.

I think we completely agree. Probably the difference is that I don't interpret their text as arguing that the Far Realm is the overarching connection. They just mention it first and with more detail than the others. I don't think that they are arguing that Dark Sun psionics are Far Realmsian (new phrase!). I agree that leading with 'In worlds that are relatively stable . . ." would be better. Then mention Far Realms as one example later. Then add the sidebar with more detail. So, again, in the most important respects I think we are on the same page.

I might put my thoughts this way: The Far Realm does not make psionics cooler. But psionics might make the Far Realm cooler. Hence I like that they mention it. Just a matter of crafting the text to not lead people to think that the Far Realm is always involved.

AD

 

[Shasarak]

The names...I don't much care for. But the built in fluff of the Far Realms (which, yes, I know is easily stripped and they're just doing the whole brand-hammer thing for a great big "THIS IS WOTC'S DEFAULT PSIONICS FOR D&D/FR/THE FAR REALMS YOU'D BETTER NOT COPY US!" bs) is a non-starter for me. I'll just use my homebrewed psychics.

Personally I dont pay too much attention to this version of the Far Realms mixed with Psionics so they dont need to worry about me copying them anyway.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Out of curiosity (and forgive me if you've already answered this elsewhere. I haven't been back to psionics threads for awhile), but would you have an issue with the flavor if psionics were described generally as being powers that one can tap into with an 'awakened' mind. And there being say a sidebar that said one of the incidental properties of touching the Far Realm can be to trigger such an awakening (by, say, violently shocking your mind into a better understanding of the fabric of reality). So it has nothing to do with the Far Realm itself. The Far Realm just becomes one, of many, mechanisms by which a mind becomes awakened.

I think pretty much anyone would be okay with it as an option as long as it is clear it isn't the only option.

 

[lkj]

I think pretty much anyone would be okay with it as an option as long as it is clear it isn't the only option.

Yes. But I don't think even the current text presents it as the only option. That does seem clear to me. It just happens to be the the option that is highlighted. Which, understandably, irks some people.

AD

 

[mellored]

I think monks would be a good psi baseline. Short rest points uses to stun, bonus action stances, and possibly cast some spells.

I'm not even opposed to calling it ki.

 

[Mercule]

I think we completely agree. Probably the difference is that I don't interpret their text as arguing that the Far Realm is the overarching connection. They just mention it first and with more detail than the others. I don't think that they are arguing that Dark Sun psionics are Far Realmsian (new phrase!). I agree that leading with 'In worlds that are relatively stable . . ." would be better. Then mention Far Realms as one example later. Then add the sidebar with more detail. So, again, in the most important respects I think we are on the same page.

I think we're in agreement, except in how strongly we read the primacy of the option. I'll grant that I'm probably a bit over-sensitive to this sort of thing, but I think that's based on experience.

Depending on how strongly Mearls intended to convey the link, my actual response is somewhere between, "Could you maybe make it more clearly an option?" and "Dude, throttle back a bit and make it a co-equal option."

I might put my thoughts this way: The Far Realm does not make psionics cooler. But psionics might make the Far Realm cooler. Hence I like that they mention it. Just a matter of crafting the text to not lead people to think that the Far Realm is always involved.

I can get 99% behind this. The 1% comes from a conscious avoidance of hypocrisy. Otherwise, I agree that flipping the relationship between the Far Realm and psionics is substantively better. I see that as accomplishing the same general flavor goals without painting an entire power source into a corner. The new Mystic form of psionics seems like it'd be great for a Wuxia game, for which a tie to tentacled horrors might come as a shock to fans.

 

[Mercule]

I think monks would be a good psi baseline. Short rest points uses to stun, bonus action stances, and possibly cast some spells.

I'm not even opposed to calling it ki.

I tend to agree, except for ki. I don't want to make psionics too narrow.

I've traditionally used psionics to represent spell-like abilities that manifest in races that don't normally have such abilities. The reasons vary, but that's the unifying theme I've always gone with. Those actually taking a psionic class simply choose to focus their efforts on exploring those abilities. If psionics starts to look too much like the psuedo-Eastern mysticism power source, then it changes some of the flexibility that's always been there.

Now, in 5E, the Magic Initiate feat and Sorcerer class seem to fill the wild talent and focused pursuit niches. They probably do so almost as well as 3E psionics did. I might be best served in creating an alternate bloodline for "wild talents" (I loathe the current Wild Magic bloodline) than continue to hope to use the official psionics mechanic for my purposes.