Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[Yaarel]

3e psionics is my favorite iteration so far. I love the Expanded Psionic Handbook.

3e created psi versions of core classes. Psi fans often irreverently referred to these as ‘psionic clone classes’ or ‘psionic-x classes’. 5e can represent these psi classes well, by making 5e psionic archetypes (subclasses) for the 5e core classes that already exist.

In 3e, the main motive for creating a psionic version of a class, was to utilize a ‘nonvancian’ spellpoint mechanic. Psionic calibrated the spell/power to use spell/power points in a more balanced way. The 3e Psion was essentially a spell-point Wizard who casts Wizard spells. The 3e Psion came as an answer to widespread frustration with the classic ‘vancian’ spell slot system.

However, now, the 5e spell slot system is so spontaneous, the 5e Wizard already functions as well as the 3e Psion did. Only simpler. For me, there is no longer a need for a spellpoint system.

A 5e core class works as a chassis for 3e psionic style. Players who have a fetish for the spellpoint system can also use the one in the DMG.

Designing archetypes (subclasses) for various core classes, creates the feel of 3e psionics. Archetypes also help utilize core material in a setting that features psionics, and oppositely allows a setting where psionics is rare to dabble in psionics ‘lite’ without new mechanics.


Note, I also want a separate class called a ‘Psion’ that blends the 2e Psionicist with the Star Wars Jedi. This post assumes there is enough demand for something like this to guarantee a 5e base class. In 5e, every class requires its own distinctive mechanics to justify the existence of a class. This post is how to represent 3e psionics.

 

[Yaarel]

5e Wizard archetypes = 3e Psion

5e Sorcerer archetype = 3e Wilder

5e Bard archetype = 3e Psychic Warrior

I was looking more closely at the 5e Bard. The class already includes telepathic/enchantment spells, shapeshifting/psychometabolic/polymorph spells, teleport/phasing/psychoportation spells, and prescience/divination spells, plus the ability to bring others luck, plus competence in melee combat. The Bard makes an effective chassis for the feel of a Psychic Warrior.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I was looking more closely at the 5e Bard. The class already includes telepathic/enchantment spells, shapeshifting/psychometabolic/polymorph spells, teleport/psychoportation spells, and prescience/divination spells, plus the ability to bring others luck, plus competence in melee combat. The Bard makes an effective chassis for the feel of a Psychic Warrior.

Mmm...I don't know: I think the PsyWar still comes across as beefier- more like a Ranger or Paladin in playstyle than a Bard.

Which reminds me- I also kind of liked the Divine Mind. Not so much for its connection to the divine so much as it's auras. A nifty little variation on what could be done with psi. It was poorly executed, but it liked the structural/mechanical IDEA.

I want a separate class called a ‘Psion’ that blends the 2e Psionicist with the Star Wars Jedi.

I am not averse to psionically manifested weapons being a suite of siloed powers that any Psi character could learn.

 

[Yaarel]

A ‘beefier’ Bard is precisely the kind of thing that an archetype is for. Contrast the ‘beefier’ War Cleric versus the ‘squishier’ Light Cleric.

Moreover, the Bard emphasizes the ‘beefiness’ is a result of mental powers that shapeshift the body - not actually a result of mundane skills.

I hope to see the Psychic Warrior be a full caster, for the same reason I want the 4e Swordmage to be a full caster. The melee prowess itself is preternatural.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Thing is, unless they do something completely different than what they've done before, any psionic subclasses they throw on would have to add to, but not alter, the basic class.

So a psionic subclass for fighter and/or rogue--no problem.

Psionic subclasses for sorcerers, wizards, or bards--problem.

All of those wield arcane powers. They come, one way or another, through an arcane source.

All 1st-level wizards have the same arcane magic with spellbooks going on. A subclass that kicks in at 2nd level isn't going to change that.

All bards are arcane casting performers. You can't just look at the class by how many HD, weapons, and spells it has. The flavor is inseparable. Regardless of how you slice it, they are inspiring, charismatic performers. 3 musical instrument proficiencies even come baked in--whether you want them or not. A subclass at 3rd-level doesn't take away the music or turn their arcane words of power into brain waves.

All sorcerers* wield arcane magic that they have internal access to from some means. The same considerations I mentioned with wizards and bards apply.

Furthermore, sorcerers are different enough from psions anyway, because the point that many of us are making is that psionics should be an internal power source that comes from the wielder. Maybe something awakens it, but it doesn't come from outside and infuse you. It is a manifestation of your mind, soul, etc. For a sorcerer, their magic actually is external. While it is infused in them from an ancestor or some other means, the magic itself involves arcane gestures and components that manipulate the external Weave (or the generic interface that does the same thing in non-FR settings) and tap into the magic inherent in all of the multiverse. They have a built in key, or maybe a battery to jump start it, but they still have to wield the same external energy as all the other spellcasters do. Psions don't metaphysically care about the rest of the multiverse. They draw their power purely from within.

Honestly, a Far Realms subclass of Sorcerer makes a lot more sense than a Far Realms connection for psionics.


* A case could be made that the Favored Soul is divine rather than arcane--but I don't think that is at all clear.

 

[Yaarel]

[MENTION=6677017]Sword of Spirit[/MENTION]

Heh. Many here seem to insist setting requirements are so easy to ‘ignore’?

Anyway, the flavor would be, these psi archetypes have learned how to master the techniques by means of their own mindforces, instead of subservience to a patron or dependence on a ‘weave’.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

[MENTION=6677017]Sword of Spirit[/MENTION]

Heh. Many here seem to insist setting requirements are so easy to ‘ignore’?

Anyway, the flavor would be, these psi archetypes have learned how to master the techniques by means of their own mindforces, instead of subservience to a patron or dependence on a ‘weave’.

Actually, I'm not really addressing the topic about ignoring flavor on a class on the player/DM end. I'm addressing the fact that WotC is not going to ignore a class's flavor when they add in a subclass.

 

[Yaarel]

These psionic archetypes for 5e classes can cohere with the 5e core setting, Forgotten Realms. Their flavor can assume other archetypes of Clerics and Warlocks depend on patrons to mediate the weave while Wizards and Sorcerers depend on the weave directly. Psi archetypes can come with the flavor of a radical breakthru, that accomplishes these effects by ones own mindful will power, accessing a higher level of consciousness, without dependency on the weave.

The Bard is easily psionic; the psi Bard archetype ‘performs’ mentally. Even the core Bard suits a psionic class as-is, imbuing the voice with psychic energy. Historically, the D&D Bard was divine or arcane, but psionic makes more sense than either.

Note, if WotC has to marry its core setting descriptions, all the more reason for core classes to avoid setting requirements. So they function in other settings.

D&D 1e core books (PH DMG MM) avoid setting assumptions, and encourage the DM to experiment. Gygax was shocked when people wanted to become dependent on his setting rather than create their own. What people think are ‘canon’ today, were optional rules and splatbooks. For example, Deities & Demigods was a splatbook. A DM or adventurer who never buys that book never has the headache of gods. Setting requirements are antithetical to the spirit of 1e.

Until 5e, the D&D core made a strong effort to keep the cosmology of ‘arcane’ vague, so it can mean different things in different settings.

In Dark Sun, arcane is an ‘unnatural’ force that literally destroys nature. Oppositely psionics is a ‘natural’ force, accidentally evolving as an ecological immune system against arcane. Perhaps, a critical mass of psionic activity rips the arcane weave? The arcane weave is more like a strangler vine. The arcane weave ultimately kills its host.

 

[Nifft]

Furthermore, sorcerers are different enough from psions anyway, because the point that many of us are making is that psionics should be an internal power source that comes from the wielder. Maybe something awakens it, but it doesn't come from outside and infuse you. It is a manifestation of your mind, soul, etc. For a sorcerer, their magic actually is external. While it is infused in them from an ancestor or some other means, the magic itself involves arcane gestures and components that manipulate the external Weave (or the generic interface that does the same thing in non-FR settings) and tap into the magic inherent in all of the multiverse. They have a built in key, or maybe a battery to jump start it, but they still have to wield the same external energy as all the other spellcasters do. Psions don't metaphysically care about the rest of the multiverse. They draw their power purely from within.

Monte Cook did a cool thing in Arcana Evolved:
- Some spells have a [Psionic] descriptor.
- If you are an AE Psion, you can cast [Psionic] spells without components or arcane spell failure.

So an arcane caster could cast Detect Thoughts, and for her it's just another spell with hand-gestures and such. A Psion can cast it, and for him it's purely mental power.

5e might be able to do something similar -- allow a (hybrid) Psion class to cast non-Psion spells, but reward her for sticking to type.

That would also allow graded benefits for stuff like Wild Talents, where you learn you're psychic after character generation. A Wild Talent Psychic Wizard might choose to stock up on Psionic spells for some added benefit.

Honestly, a Far Realms subclass of Sorcerer makes a lot more sense than a Far Realms connection for psionics.

* A case could be made that the Favored Soul is divine rather than arcane--but I don't think that is at all clear.

IMHO the Favored Soul would be a hybrid Arcane / Divine spellcaster. And that's cool.

I wouldn't mind seeing a hybrid Psionic / Arcane version, but yeah, as a Sorcerer it would be undeniably Arcane as well as whatever else it did.

That said, speaking of the Far Realms, I'd certainly like to see an Alienist Sorcerer.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was looking more closely at the 5e Bard. The class already includes telepathic/enchantment spells, shapeshifting/psychometabolic/polymorph spells, teleport/phasing/psychoportation spells, and prescience/divination spells, plus the ability to bring others luck, plus competence in melee combat...

And healing. You could have the Ardent as a Bard psionic-sub-class.