Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[Yaarel]

The ‘source’ of psionics is knowing, ones own consciousness entangles the body but is more than the body.

 

[GobiWon]

So... psions aren't mortal? If so, they still tap into the same source.

Touche ... Mortals who use divine and arcane magic tap the same source as gods. Psionic users would tap an internal mental source tied to sentience and individual awareness. Both would be mortal.

 

[GobiWon]

So the argument that psionics are 'not magic,' and the argument that they're redundant, and the argument that they have no place in D&D at all, are all really based on the same thing - if one is right, they all are.

I'm not saying it's not magic of some sort, just not the sort that works in tandem with the arcane and divine magic found in D&D. By drawing on a different source it becomes worthy of doing. If the psionicist draws from the same source as the divine and the arcane, then the psionic user is just a sorcerer. I don't need another type of sorcerer. I need a character who can step in and fill the void in settings where the arcane and the divine has failed.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm not saying it's not magic of some sort, just not the sort that works in tandem with the arcane and divine magic found in D&D.

Why? Arcane and divine are very different, arcane is further sub-divided into some pretty different sources & natures that merit different classes and spell lists. 'Magic' seems to cover a whole lot of ground, including a lot of what psionics traditionally does. Like telepathy (there's already a telepathic warlock), moving objects at a distance, starting fires, and so forth.

By drawing on a different source it becomes worthy of doing. If the psionicist draws from the same source as the divine and the arcane, then the psionic user is just a sorcerer. I don't need another type of sorcerer.

I don't think another half-dozen types of sorcerers would hurt. Two seems a little low. I mean, wizards have 8 schools and clerics a comparable number of domains. I think there's room for more than two sorcerers.

I need a character who can step in and fill the void in settings where the arcane and the divine has failed.

Dark Sun, for instance, is a setting where Divine magic is just gone, but Arcane magic, while underground, still exists. If arcane and divine magic can be 'the same' in this sense you're complaining about, why an one of them be gone and the other still work? Why would both of them being gone keep an equally-magical Psionics from working? It's clearly not an issue, a DM is free to use a fine a blade as he likes when excising sub-types of magic. No Great Old Ones? No problem, one Warlock type gone, no need for all magic stop working. So a psionics-is-magic psionics can still be the last magic standing in a world where other types of magic have failed.

 

[Nifft]

I'm not saying it's not magic of some sort, just not the sort that works in tandem with the arcane and divine magic found in D&D. By drawing on a different source it becomes worthy of doing. If the psionicist draws from the same source as the divine and the arcane, then the psionic user is just a sorcerer.

Disagree strongly. Warlocks, Bards, and Wizards are all drawing on the same source as the Sorcerer, and they're not just Sorcerers.

If you're trying to say that a Psonic Sorcerer subclass alone would not be sufficient to represent Psionics, then you might be saying something decent, but what you've got right now is just factually wrong, and the disproof is most of the PHB.

I don't need another type of sorcerer.

I do. I need lots of new types of Sorcerer.

If they can figure out how to make a Psionic Sorcerer, that's great.

I still want a base Psion class, but having a Psionic Sorcerer subclass -- to go with the Psionic Fighter subclass, the Psionic Rogue subclass, and the Psionic Monk subclass -- would be 100% spiffy.

I need a character who can step in and fill the void in settings where the arcane and the divine has failed.

Fighters, Rogues, and Monks have got your back.

 

[GobiWon]

Dark Sun, for instance, is a setting where Divine magic is just gone, but Arcane magic, while underground, still exists. If arcane and divine magic can be 'the same' in this sense you're complaining about, why an one of them be gone and the other still work? Why would both of them being gone keep an equally-magical Psionics from working? It's clearly not an issue, a DM is free to use a fine a blade as he likes when excising sub-types of magic. No Great Old Ones? No problem, one Warlock type gone, no need for all magic stop working. So a psionics-is-magic psionics can still be the last magic standing in a world where other types of magic have failed

In Dark Sun the gods are gone and the arcane destroys life force. Arcane is not gone but it is definitely broken. It is in these settings that psionics shine. If psionics is pulling from the same spell list as arcane and divine ... if it has the same source, it doesn't feel like a true alternative to typical "magic". Presentation is important. You could state that it is the last type of magic standing, but it doesn't have the same narrative impact as if psionics was an entity that was completely different and separate from the typical "magic" found in the core rule books.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There are lots of RW ways to generate energy- solar, geothermal, nuclear, hydroelectric, burning hydrocarbons, wind, etc. All have different pros & cons, and some are better than others at doing certain tasks.

Analogously, those of us asking for a different energy source for Psi, with actual meaningful differences in mechanics, strengths & weaknesses, think this is worthwhile and game enriching in ways that merely repurposing a standard class and hooking into the same plug in the wall as before isn't.

 

[Tony Vargas]

In Dark Sun the gods are gone and the arcane destroys life force. Arcane is not gone but it is definitely broken.

Only Defilers did that. Clearly, being 'the same' in the sense you're worried about didn't keep one sort of magic from disappearing while another remained.

I still want a base Psion class, but having a Psionic Sorcerer subclass -- to go with the Psionic Fighter subclass, the Psionic Rogue subclass, and the Psionic Monk subclass -- would be 100% spiffy.

I don't hate having options.

Fighters, Rogues, and Monks have got your back. {In a world w/o arcane or divine}

Well, and Barbarians. But that party's going to have a rough go of it, indeed.

"Single Source" games like that just don't work so well in 5e - which makes sense, since they worked even less well in classic D&D, which 5e tries so hard to emulate in 'feel.'

 

[Remathilis]

Touche ... Mortals who use divine and arcane magic tap the same source as gods. Psionic users would tap an internal mental source tied to sentience and individual awareness. Both would be mortal.

It might behoove the designers to NOT define what psionics taps into, only to specify its NOT Magic/The Weave/whatever. Maybe its internal energy, or the Realm of Dreams (Eberron's source), or maybe its the Far Realm, or maybe its none of the above, or all of the above. I just want psionics to be... different. I don't want it rehashing the rules of magic again (except on the most basic, needed for balance level).

 

[Yaarel]

The UA gave an example of a non-spellcaster Ranger archetype. Does this subtraction change the Ranger class from a divine source to martial source?