Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[GobiWon]

And, this is why psionics pretty much demands a full, stand-alone hardcover. At this point, regardless of whether you see psionics as "magic" or not, it's just history.

Agreed, but the question of whether psionics is the same as divine and arcane is important and having a sense of the narrative of psionics helps you determine whether it should interact with current divine and arcane "magic". Does counterspell work? Do creatures with resistance to spells have resistance to psionics? Do you create a new mechanic that allows non-psionicists to resist psionics or do you rely on something like intelligence saves which have been underutilized in 5e. Having a sense of what psionics does in the narrative story helps determine how these things should work even if you never mention it being from the Far Realm or being a separate inner source, it is important that the designers know that it is separate from arcane and divine magic so that the powers reflect this difference.

 

[Remathilis]

It also doesn't mean that it needs an entirely different mechanic. There's nothing wrong with going the 1e way, and having a psionic discipline, "Mind Puppet" with the notation "except as noted above and described below, the discipline is identical to the Dominate Person spell..." Or simply giving the psionic Dominate Person, and a class feature that changes the components of spells he casts.

That seems like a logistical nightmare. To use Psionic Dominate Person, I need to either have the PHB and the Psionic Rules open (to reference both and track the changes) or the Psionic rules must reprint the spell, defeating the purpose of referencing the spell in the first place.

"See PHB XX" is the one thing I DON'T want to see in a psionic power.

- Re-cycling spells saves space, complexity, and design effort, and also (though it's not an important consideration in 5e) limits the impact 'power creep' or 'bloat' can have on game balance.

Basically, make psionics just another spellcaster with its own spell list. The lazy way of doing it.

- Listing a 'new' discipline that references the mechanics of an existing spell gives the discipline a sense of being distinct and a convenient way to give it components or other details different from the spell, while sacrificing only a little more space, simplicity, balance &c.

No. It requires two documents (or one reprinting many of the PHB spells) with the added complexity comparing the two versions for changes. And it doesn't stop the possibility of power creep (since any change to the spell can change its power level; imagine psionic revivify without a material component)

- Creating a completely new supernatural-power sub-system, including a list of disciplines & sciences nearly as extensive as existing spells creates a strong, arbitrary, mechanical impression of psionics being more distinct from existing types of magic (divine, arcane, ki, etc), than those existing types are from eachother, at the price of substantial design effort (some of which in the current WotC model, might have to be farmed out), much higher page count, increased complexity, and, incidentally (because, again, not an important consideration in 5e) carries a higher risk of being 'broken' or otherwise impacting game balance & playability via bloat.

Ding ding, we have a winner!

On top of those three choices, there's also the the possibilty of using 3.5 take of giving an explicit option for Psionics to be 'magic,' interacting with checks on magical power like dispels, magic resistance, anti-magic zones and the like (and also any perks of magic, like working vs spells, curses, diseases, conditions, etc that "can only be removed by magic"), or to be 'different,' and unrestrained by checks on magical power (but unable to take advantage of 'only magic' perks). Presenting such a choice, and the optional mechanics to back it up, would be very much in keeping with 5e's doctrine of DM empowerment and attempts at modularity.

None of the three abilities listed stops detection, dispelling, or other countermeasures from happening, even if they are completely different powers from completely different sources. I am PERFECTLY FINE with having psionics and magic be different origins, mechanics, and powers, but be able to detect, dispel, and counter one another. Psionic/Magic Transparency is not the same a Psionics is Magic.

 

[Mercule]

"See PHB XX" is the one thing I DON'T want to see in a psionic power.

While I agree with pretty much everything else in your post, this bears repeating ad infinitum. Having one entry for a spell, period, is one of the best things 5E did.

 

[Dausuul]

Semantics aside, what are the distinguishing features of psionics that set it apart from "spellcasting magic?" As others have pointed out, there is not a lot of room to have it do things that spellcasting magic can't do, because spellcasting magic can do just about anything. But psionics could do certain things better, or in different ways.

I would say the distinguishing traits of psionics should be:

• No external tools, ingredients, or actions. Using psionics is a purely mental activity. You can do it--at full power--while chained, gagged, and naked. (This means none of the New Age crystals-and-chakra stuff.)
• Psionics does not create free-standing effects. It does not summon creatures or create objects, and any ongoing psionic effect requires concentration. There is no such thing as a "psionic item."
• Psionics is not dispellable. Not only do dispel magic, counterspell, antimagic field, and the like not work, but there are no psionic equivalents of those things. If you want to stop a psion from doing something, you have to target the effect, not the psionics; for example, physically holding still an object that the psion is trying to move with telekinesis.
• Psionics ignores physical barriers. Where psionics is concerned, there is no difference between "line of sight" and "line of effect." A wall of force blocks spells, but psionics can go right through it. Furthermore, most psionic powers can be used "over the wire" of a scrying effect, either magical or psionic.
• Psionics can be developed by non-specialists. Someone with the Wild Talent feat (I assume this will be a feat) has access to the same array of powers as a full psion. The psion can just put a lot more oomph behind those powers, and can master a greater number of them.
• Psionics can't compete with magic in raw power. Psionics ignores a lot of the restrictions and countermeasures that magic-wielders have to deal with; the flip side is that magic-wielders pack a harder punch. Put a psion and a wizard of the same level in an arena, and the wizard will usually trounce the psion.

 

[Mercule]

• Psionics does not create free-standing effects. It does not summon creatures or create objects, and any ongoing psionic effect requires concentration. There is no such thing as a "psionic item."
• Psionics is not dispellable. Not only do dispel magic, counterspell, antimagic field, and the like not work, but there are no psionic equivalents of those things. If you want to stop a psion from doing something, you have to target the effect, not the psionics; for example, physically holding still an object that the psion is trying to move with telekinesis.

I think I could get behind these, in combination. From a flavor perspective, psionics could be non-dispellable either because it's different or just because the guy is still pumping energy into it.

I might say that psionics is either concentration or instantaneous/permanent. If you use telekinesis to wrap an iron bar around someone, it stays bent.

 

[Dausuul]

I think I could get behind these, in combination. From a flavor perspective, psionics could be non-dispellable either because it's different or just because the guy is still pumping energy into it.

The way I see it, magic is the shaping of an external force. A spell is its own thing, independent of the spellcaster who created it. You can attack the spell, counter it, suppress it. And the creator can in many cases walk away from the spell and leave it doing its thing.

Psionics is the mind acting directly on the world around it. There's no intermediate entity that you can target with a dispelling effect. You can oppose the effect with an effect of your own, or you can attack the psion, but those are your only options. Likewise, the only way to suppress psionics is to suppress the psion's mind (via unconsciousness, feeblemind, etc.).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I would say the distinguishing traits of psionics should be:

No external tools, ingredients, or actions. Using psionics is a purely mental activity. You can do it--at full power--while chained, gagged, and naked. (This means none of the New Age crystals-and-chakra stuff.)

In general, I agree. But as I mentioned, I could forsee certain abilities- like scrying- still requiring a physical mnemonic, a.k.a. a focus, for at least full efficacy ("I can sense him, but the image is fuzzy- do you have an item of his to help me clarify my vision?"). Psionic healing might require prolonged contact with the injured, and tracery of the wounds (see Classic Star Trek's "The Empath"), a.k.a. somatics. Etc.

Psionics does not create free-standing effects. It does not summon creatures or create objects, and any ongoing psionic effect requires concentration. There is no such thing as a "psionic item."

Pretty much, though that may be problematic for things like psionically generated arms & armor. Things like that- if they exist in the game (and fans of Soulknives and similar classes DO think they need to show up)- should not require concentration. They should still disappear if the manifester is unconscious, though.

Psionics is not dispellable. Not only do dispel magic, counterspell, antimagic field, and the like not work, but there are no psionic equivalents of those things. If you want to stop a psion from doing something, you have to target the effect, not the psionics; for example, physically holding still an object that the psion is trying to move with telekinesis.

...or attack the manifester directly, breaking his concentration, etc.

Psionics ignores physical barriers. Where psionics is concerned, there is no difference between "line of sight" and "line of effect." A wall of force blocks spells, but psionics can go right through it. Furthermore, most psionic powers can be used "over the wire" of a scrying effect, either magical or psionic.

I think this depends on the power. A "monster from the Id" might not be able to merely bypass barriers, depending on how far away from himself the manifester can create them, for instance.

Psionics can be developed by non-specialists. Someone with the Wild Talent feat (I assume this will be a feat) has access to the same array of powers as a full psion. The psion can just put a lot more oomph behind those powers, and can master a greater number of them.

I see the mechanical origins of "Wild Talents" in feats as well- take the feat, get a single power. WT could be taken more than once.

But within that power, the Wild Talent may be just as powerful as the dedicated specialist.

Psionics can't compete with magic in raw power. Psionics ignores a lot of the restrictions and countermeasures that magic-wielders have to deal with; the flip side is that magic-wielders pack a harder punch. Put a psion and a wizard of the same level in an arena, and the wizard will usually trounce the psion.

Agreed in general, but again, I think this depends on the power in question.

 

[fuindordm]

While I agree with pretty much everything else in your post, this bears repeating ad infinitum. Having one entry for a spell, period, is one of the best things 5E did.

It's a good thing, but like any other thing it is a design tradeoff. You can't simplify without also making things more uniform. 4E took this to the extreme. I think 5E is a pretty good compromise, but I'd be willing to accept more complexity in exchange for more specificity among the classes.

And why oh why didn't they take the opportunity to cross-reference their nice and simple spell list? :-( :-( I loved the line at the top of each spell in 3E: Cleric 2 Paladin 2 Wizard 3. And it would have been so easy to include little icons in the spell lists to flag concentration, ritual, and bonus action casting time. (Yes, I know about the spell sorter Excel sheet)

 

[Remathilis]

No external tools, ingredients, or actions. Using psionics is a purely mental activity. You can do it--at full power--while chained, gagged, and naked. (This means none of the New Age crystals-and-chakra stuff.)

Basic psionics should, but cystals-and-chakra stuff might be a good way to handle "psionic consumables" or rituals or the like. A crystal could store power points, a chakra allow ritual-like powers for lower PP cost. Something like that. But a psionic in a dungeon, bound, gagged, and stripped, can still be dangerous, I agree.

Psionics does not create free-standing effects. It does not summon creatures or create objects, and any ongoing psionic effect requires concentration. There is no such thing as a "psionic item."

Careful on this. I can imagine a pyrokinesis creating a free-standing fire effect, or the ability to hone an item with bit of psychic power to make it +1. However, I agree with the rest. No summons, no necromancy, no polymorphing others into frogs, to visual illusions, no power words, no raising the dead.

Psionics is not dispellable. Not only do dispel magic, counterspell, antimagic field, and the like not work, but there are no psionic equivalents of those things. If you want to stop a psion from doing something, you have to target the effect, not the psionics; for example, physically holding still an object that the psion is trying to move with telekinesis.

Eehh... I worry about the psionic arm's race then, especially with regard to charm/control effects. A very tight leash needs to be held on those effects if they are not to be dispellable.

Psionics ignores physical barriers. Where psionics is concerned, there is no difference between "line of sight" and "line of effect." A wall of force blocks spells, but psionics can go right through it. Furthermore, most psionic powers can be used "over the wire" of a scrying effect, either magical or psionic

Kinda like Force choking someone over the video feed, got it.

Psionics can be developed by non-specialists. Someone with the Wild Talent feat (I assume this will be a feat) has access to the same array of powers as a full psion. The psion can just put a lot more oomph behind those powers, and can master a greater number of them.

No different than magic initiate or spell sniper, really.

Psionics can't compete with magic in raw power. Psionics ignores a lot of the restrictions and countermeasures that magic-wielders have to deal with; the flip side is that magic-wielders pack a harder punch. Put a psion and a wizard of the same level in an arena, and the wizard will usually trounce the psion.

You don't want to make psionics TOO weak though, otherwise it becomes a dip-class for multi-classers. A lvl 20 psion should match a lvl 20 wizard in terms of power, if not in effect or versatility.

 

[Mirtek]

• Psionics is not dispellable. Not only do dispel magic, counterspell, antimagic field, and the like not work, but there are no psionic equivalents of those things. If you want to stop a psion from doing something, you have to target the effect, not the psionics; for example, physically holding still an object that the psion is trying to move with telekinesis.

That's what I definately don't want to see when they do psionics in 5e