Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[SkidAce]

Tried to convert 2e, but it was difficult, and didn't (IMHO) meet the 5e simpler yet elegant design theory.

So I took a stab at using spells with a Sorcerer chassis.

After all, RIFTS has the same format for spells and powers. So did the old supplement call the Arcanum for "Mystics". And I do want the monk's "ki" to be comparable, and to use the mind flayer, gith et al as is from the MM. So I went with DM option spell points and a few changes.

Note, I have not posted the power (spell) list. I'm only going to work on that once the core theory is solid.

BLUF

• Sorcerer chassis
• Use DM Option Spell Points
• No Power (spell) components required
• Psion Powers equal PH spells, and a few converted EpXPH powers
• Main Psion Power List (small) plus Bonus Powers from Discipline (like domains but one power for each level 1-9)
• Replace Sorcerous Origin with Starting Discipline (potential to learn other Disciplines from optional feat selections at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19)
• Power Save DC: 10 + prof. + Int modifier (fulfills my homebrew premise that psi is strange and powerful, without messing with "transparency"
• Metapsionics: As Sorcerous Metamagic gained at level 3.


Still under consideration: Cantrips for disciplines and/or as psionic attack modes.

--------------------------------

I would rather have a spell point system and meta psionics developed by WotC, but this will do until/if then.

 

[Remathilis]

Tried to convert 2e, but it was difficult, and didn't (IMHO) meet the 5e simpler yet elegant design theory.

So I took a stab at using spells with a Sorcerer chassis..

As a homebrew, its perfectly fine and elegant. I'd want more from WotC, but for what you need/want, looks good.

 

[Hussar]

As a homebrew, its perfectly fine and elegant. I'd want more from WotC, but for what you need/want, looks good.

I guess this is my sticking point Rem. What more do you want? What isn't being captured of the Psion class? What's missing?

Obviously [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION]'s creation needs a spell list - of course. It's just the beginning, not the end after all. But, what else needs to be there?

I guess my question really is, why does psionics have to be more complex? Why can't we use a simple psionic system?

 

[Remathilis]

I guess this is my sticking point Rem. What more do you want? What isn't being captured of the Psion class? What's missing?

Obviously [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION]'s creation needs a spell list - of course. It's just the beginning, not the end after all. But, what else needs to be there?

I guess my question really is, why does psionics have to be more complex? Why can't we use a simple psionic system?

Really, I'd like to see something replace meta(magic)psionics. Something unique to the psion. I don't know what just yet, but not a copy of the sorcerer's main feature.

Additionally, I'd like to see the ratio of "new" powers (or converted from 2e/3e/4e) to "reuse the PHB spell" be higher.

Everything else is essentially what I'd like to see in a "simple" psionics system (akin to the 3.5 era psion).

 

[Von Ether]

Tried to convert 2e, but it was difficult, and didn't (IMHO) meet the 5e simpler yet elegant design theory.

So I took a stab at using spells with a Sorcerer chassis.

After all, RIFTS has the same format for spells and powers. So did the old supplement call the Arcanum for "Mystics". And I do want the monk's "ki" to be comparable, and to use the mind flayer, gith et al as is from the MM. So I went with DM option spell points and a few changes.

Note, I have not posted the power (spell) list. I'm only going to work on that once the core theory is solid.

BLUF

• Sorcerer chassis
• Use DM Option Spell Points
• No Power (spell) components required
• Psion Powers equal PH spells, and a few converted EpXPH powers
• Main Psion Power List (small) plus Bonus Powers from Discipline (like domains but one power for each level 1-9)
• Replace Sorcerous Origin with Starting Discipline (potential to learn other Disciplines from optional feat selections at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19)
• Power Save DC: 10 + prof. + Int modifier (fulfills my homebrew premise that psi is strange and powerful, without messing with "transparency"
• Metapsionics: As Sorcerous Metamagic gained at level 3.


Still under consideration: Cantrips for disciplines and/or as psionic attack modes.

--------------------------------

I would rather have a spell point system and meta psionics developed by WotC, but this will do until/if then.

*Smacks forehead*

That's darn near perfect for a homebrew. I was just going with "Sorcerer with tweaked spell list for flavor" but adding Spell points is that bit of verisimilitude that missing. If you handed a player a handout with renamed spell, they may not even really notice. This could also tweak the Eldritch Knight that way too.

If you also banned the regular Sorcerer and EK from play, that would help give a more unfamiliar feel to the tweaked classes in the game.

The irony, though, is not lost on me when I say that you should figure out how psionics fit in your game. Not where it came from as a power source -- as so many words have tried to address in this thread -- but more culturally and plot wise. And also how those powers interact politically and mechanically (or Psionic-Magic Transparency as they called it in 3e.)

I could see a world where some monks were founders of dojos that evolved into Psionic houses of study. Do they still embrace that past or shun it? How do wizards and clerics compete or cooperate with psions?

Or like in the Deryni Chronicles, they could be the secret sauce for the noblity.

 

[GobiWon]

Really, I'd like to see something replace meta(magic)psionics. Something unique to the psion. I don't know what just yet, but not a copy of the sorcerer's main feature.

Psion "metamagic" should be slightly more powerful than the sorcerer's but be tied to an exhaustion mechanic.

 

[Von Ether]

*Smacks forehead*

That's darn near perfect for a homebrew. I was just going with "Sorcerer with tweaked spell list for flavor" but adding Spell points is that bit of verisimilitude that missing. If you handed a player a handout with renamed spell, they may not even really notice. This could also tweak the Eldritch Knight that way too.

If you also banned the regular Sorcerer and EK from play, that would help give a more unfamiliar feel to the tweaked classes in the game.

The irony, though, is not lost on me when I say that you should figure out how psionics fit in your game. Not where it came from as a power source -- as so many words have tried to address in this thread -- but more culturally and plot wise. And also how those powers interact politically and mechanically (or Psionic-Magic Transparency as they called it in 3e.)

I could see a world where some monks were founders of dojos that evolved into Psionic houses of study. Do they still embrace that past or shun it? How do wizards and clerics compete or cooperate with psions?

Or like in the Deryni Chronicles, they could be the secret sauce for the noblity.

Annnd now I want to use the 3e rules for either Sanity or Taint for wizards and spells. Then BAM! I have an instant setting with just a few rules tweaks. Whoot!

 

[Staffan]

I guess this is my sticking point Rem. What more do you want? What isn't being captured of the Psion class? What's missing?

Obviously @SkidAce's creation needs a spell list - of course. It's just the beginning, not the end after all. But, what else needs to be there?

I guess my question really is, why does psionics have to be more complex? Why can't we use a simple psionic system?

I don't know about Remathilis, but here's how I see it:

If psionics is going to be more than a novelty, it should have as much depth as arcane or divine magic. Psionics is an important part of the Dark Sun setting, and a potentially important one for Eberron (depending on your campaign's focus - psionics in Eberron are not as pervasive as in Dark Sun, but they are kind of important). Those settings should have room for many different types of psionic characters, just like there's room for many different types of warriors, and many different types of wizards. Those psionic characters should also be distinct from arcane/divine characters.

5e has four "full-caster" arcane classes (bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard) plus two subclasses of other classes that dabble in arcane magic (eldritch knight and arcane trickster), and two full-caster divine classes (cleric, druid) plus two half-caster divine classes (paladin, ranger). Psionics should have something similar.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If psionics is going to be more than a novelty, it should have as much depth as arcane or divine magic.

Ironically, the way to do that is the same way they gave arcane as much depth as divine and divine as much depth as arcane: by making Psionics neo-Vancian casters who pull from the same big list of spells in the PH, just with different lists, different sub-classes, and different features.

That would really fail to capture the classic /feel/ of psionics, though.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't know about Remathilis, but here's how I see it:

If psionics is going to be more than a novelty, it should have as much depth as arcane or divine magic. Psionics is an important part of the Dark Sun setting, and a potentially important one for Eberron (depending on your campaign's focus - psionics in Eberron are not as pervasive as in Dark Sun, but they are kind of important). Those settings should have room for many different types of psionic characters, just like there's room for many different types of warriors, and many different types of wizards. Those psionic characters should also be distinct from arcane/divine characters.

5e has four "full-caster" arcane classes (bard, sorcerer, warlock, wizard) plus two subclasses of other classes that dabble in arcane magic (eldritch knight and arcane trickster), and two full-caster divine classes (cleric, druid) plus two half-caster divine classes (paladin, ranger). Psionics should have something similar.

Not sure it needs to be "as big" as arcane or divine. Psionics, even in Dark Sun or Eberron, are fairly niche. I'd rather a tight focus and fewer, well-built material than trying to account for 2-4 classes and additional subclasses.