D&D 4E Mike Mearls on how D&D 4E could have looked

OK on this "I would’ve much preferred the ability to adopt any role within the core 4 by giving players a big choice at level 1, an option that placed an overlay on every power you used or that gave you a new way to use them."
Basically have Source Specific Powers and less class powers. But I think combining that with having BIG differing stances to dynamically switch role might be a better idea so that your hero can adjust role to circumstance. I have to defend this NPC right now vs I have to take down the big bad right now vs I have to do minion cleaning right now, I am inspiring allies in my interesting way, who need it right now.

and the obligatory
Argghhhh on this. " I wanted classes to have different power acquisition schedules"

And thematic differences seemed to have been carried fine.

 

[Sadras]

Well see that's the thing... you don't get to play a Conan or Achilles under this paradigm. You have to play someone like Beowulf, Gilgamesh, Sundiata or Heracles... someone with blatant supernatural or divine powers but who doesn't use spells per se.

EDIT: Personally I have a multitude of games (Exalted, Godbound, Gods of the Fall, etc.) whose whole premise is this so I'm not necessarily looking for that in D&D... though I wouldn't be adverse to a supplement or add on for these types of heroes in 5e.

I may be misunderstanding, but my reason for my ask is because I'm not familiar with Conan and his abilities hence my question. I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Conan, whom [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] has described as being able to one-shot a lich, is the pinnacle fighter i.e. level 20.

 

[Manbearcat]

So serious question... If the DM in your example wouldn't allow this, what makes you think he would buy or run a game of D&D that forced him to allow it?

If a game’s themes and tropes at high level play meant that the above action declaration is coherent, the dissenting GM has 4 options:

1) Only play before high level (which apparently that is what the overwhelming majority of tables do anyway per WotC data, so no worries).

2) If that GM is an advocate of Rulings Not Rules and a believer that system is suggestion/toolkit to be modified at their discretion, then simply annul those themes/tropes out of their high level play.

3) Don’t buy the ruleset and play one of the bajillion awesome games on the market.

4) STAGE AN ENDLESS REVOLT/SIEGE!

There may be others, but those are the only 4 I can think of.

 

[Garthanos]

No that's a baseline for resolution of magical actions which has to be something, especially seeing as how we have no basis to make any type of inference or judgement on this from the real world. What 5e has done, at least IMO is make one axis, resolution of non-magical actions, less concrete so that those who want it to be on par with the baseline of magic can allow it

Not really... sub par is assumed no resource system for auto successes when the wizards very much have it sorry its starting out sub par.

to be and those who don't... don't.

To show another example of how its inflexible for game world... a game world where all magic classes are mentor roles with little combat influence might as well pick another game as the majority of the book is thrown away.

 

[Garthanos]

Out of interest how would reaching into a forge for crafting an artifact affect Conan?

Riddle of steel dude riddle of steel (it means Will and Flesh is more powerful that steel) ... and no Conans world does not have wizards anything like D&D so the game already failed that story line.

You can play a game where Conan watches wizards do everything out of combat worth while at high levels or just suck a thumb and house rule them into the dirt.

 

[Manbearcat]

I may be misunderstanding, but my reason for my ask is because I'm not familiar with Conan and his abilities hence my question. I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that Conan, whom @pemerton has described as being able to one-shot a lich, is the pinnacle fighter i.e. level 20.

I think the idea is that the dramatic arc/heroes journey can:

1) Begin at x trope below Conan

2) Evolve into Conan

3) Evolve further into Beowulf

Extrnded further, the premise is:

”Only a Beowulf-esque martial archetype can achieve relative parity with the godlike power and breadth of resources of a D&D Archmage (which is overwhelmingly more powerful than spellcasters in other genre fiction) due to reasons a, b, c (one of which is no action resolution for their suite of godly resources).

 

[Garthanos]

I think the idea is that the dramatic arc/heroes journey can:

1) Begin at x trope below Conan

2) Evolve into Conan

3) Evolve further into Beowulf

4) Evolve into Gilgamesh whose quest was to achieve immortality

 

[Sadras]

Riddle of steel dude riddle of steel... and no Conans world does not have wizards anything like D&D so the game already failed that story line.

Nonsense. 5e very much discusses the level of magic you will allow within your homebrew setting. The only one who can fail that story line is the DM not the game.

 

[Garthanos]

Nonsense. 5e very much discusses the level of magic you will allow within your homebrew setting. The only one who can fail that story line is the DM not the game.

So then if the game enabled the Character to invoke riddle of steel and the DM was nerfing mages he could nerf this other martial hero too... achieving balance is much harder and has consistently sucked.

 

[Garthanos]

Oh look you can nerf the fighters out of reliable out of combat options if he had any appropriate for higher tier too

 

[Imaro]

Not really... sub par is assumed no resource system for auto successes when the wizards very much have it sorry its starting out sub par.

Huh? There is a system for auto-success in the DMG pg. 239

Also from what I can tell the auto-success spells have been severly reduced in 5e.

To show another example of how its inflexible for game world... a game world where all magic classes are mentor roles with little combat influence might as well pick another game as the majority of the book is thrown away.

Wait what? That's not inflexibility that's sticking to the themes of the actual game of D&D. That said it's easy enough for a wizard to go say... Diviner... eschew attack spells and boost knowledge skills to create the type of mage you are speaking to. Not sure why you would want to create a mage that has little combat influence in D&D but it's very much possible.